Got my Nord Stage B-Stock but the wheel is dead

[davlippo7]

I did a trail and error and replaced some and then on the unit it would say it was missing so then I just added my own as a substitute.

If they had double the memory we wouldn't have to do this and memory is cheap. Same as phones or Ipad or computers just sell a unit with more or less memory as you want to pay for it. Saves a ton of problems and I'd easily buy the maxed out memory if it were available because I hate swapping out samples.

If they charge you for it then it's not a loss or anything not sure why that's so difficult. For those who like swapping out stuff they can buy the cheaper version.

As for the dealer yes I have a dealer (shown below) and a warranty and the dealer gets a perfect mark so you should buy yours there also. I might be returning mine not because of the dealer but the Nord Rep. and just getting a refund. I will say he got snippy (the sales person) and warned me like I was a child and as if I was scamming them that I'd be charged a restocking fee if I was lying about it being broken. I understand some people could do that but I sent in photos and told him about the wheel and that's when he said I didn't know what I was doing.

So I wonder how many stupid kids pull out $4,000 or more and buy an expensive keyboard and I assume are smart enough to play it and literally don't know how a modulation wheel works? So the assumption was that I was a scammer playing the dealer and pretending perhaps to audition the keyboard and return it for free and make up a story about it being broken. This does happen but they should get to know me first before assuming I'm a scamming kid using my parents credit card.

Now I'm not positive but if I do return it I'm curious to see what they might do like charge me shipping or fees etc. Whether he returns it to Nord AM&S or resells it at the store same as before. Because I've actually repaired it now, it works. They should actually owe me money for my time, parts and all wasted time to troubleshoot & repair it for them. Funny how that works or doesn't work but in the old days they would have been very grateful thanking me and treating me with respect. A few bad apples have caused us all to become 100% guilty until proven innocent so the world is truly up-side-down.

Concerning the advertised "free" program manager with "free" content most of what's on there has been replaced by more updated stuff. You can't really fit anymore of it on the keyboard. Does it all sound very similar to you? I mean slight nuance differences is all. I didn't go through the masses of other content I only loaded a few digital voices. I mean technically you can swap out content but how much of a value that really is most might just be old or outdated material. Had the memory been much larger it would have been a bigger benefit. It works but how many people are actually swapping out voices that are all essentially similar? I guess it's not as big a deal as I thought when I first saw it. It more of a gimmick feature but it does work if you want it.

Yamaha is worse they only add a voice or two in OS updates and you might not want or need any of those. However then they can control the voice assignments internally. Then their internal memory gets maxed out you never know when that happens. I'm expecting a new YCx or some V-Stage NS4 competitor to come eventually.

As far as prices at $6,000 I can buy a nice used car for that much money. I'm amazed because arrangers cost $6,000 but that's for a reason the quality of sounds including articulations and all the work to make styles and to control those styles. A stage board doesn't have any of that so why does it cost $6,000? It's not even a workstation with touch screen interfacing. It's nice but max $4,000 is plenty enough. Churches have somewhat unlimited budgets compared to a private owner. This makes me angry that Nord and the rep found it so impossible to send me a new board when they are overpriced by thousands. It's so stingy why not be grateful and accommodating to customers who are the reason you're in business?

[maxpiano]

If they had double the memory we wouldn't have to do this and memory is cheap. Same as phones or Ipad or computers just sell a unit with more or less memory as you want to pay for it. Saves a ton of problems and I'd easily buy the maxed out memory if it were available because I hate swapping out samples.

You said you are an engineer, but clearly not in electronics (am I right?) otherwise you would know the difference between computer memory and fast Flash RAM + the difference in a DSP-based architecture and a computer... btw how much User memory has the Yamaha Montage? Is it capable of loading all possible (present and future) Yamaha libraries...?

If you consider also that the Nord Stage is not intended to be a workstation with 10.000 sounds (unlike Kronos, Montage etc,...), but an advanced Stage keyboard, centered mainly on Organs and Pianos, where you "load what you need" to play it live on stage (that's what it is primarily designed for), in that perspective that memory limit is much more acceptable (imho of course): you prepare your sounds set for the gig you are going to play, load it (as backup of bundle) and there you go.

[anotherscott]

If they had double the memory we wouldn't have to do this and memory is cheap.

This has been discussed here, many times. Not all "memory" is the same, and the kind Nord uses is (relatively) pricey.

Same as phones or Ipad or computers just sell a unit with more or less memory as you want to pay for it.

All phones or iPads of a given model have an identical amount of what is actually memory. The part that differs is how much storage they have. For example, the iPad 9th generation had 3 GB memory (RAM), though it was available with either 64 or 256 GB of storage. The Nord Stage 4 has neither traditional RAM nor traditional flash storage. It uses a different kind of flash, which, itself, behaves more like RAM (except unlike RAM, it does not lose its contents when powered down).

If they charge you for it then it's not a loss or anything not sure why that's so difficult.

The processor and software architecture has to support it, which I suspect it does not. Also, the hardware has to be "wired" for variable amounts of memory (i.e. a place to install additional memory), or they have to manufacture entirely different logic boards for different units... either way, it's an increased cost, essentially for all units, whether they want the additional memory or not.

[taxman]

It’s really strange how this thread goes from the OP. It originally was about a technical defect at a B-Stock unit, next about heavy complaints about Nord, then about the Nord rep, less so about the dealer who seemed to have sold a defect unit, and now finally about the capabilities of the instrument. To me it sounds as if he had simply purchased an instrument which he thought must be great but without knowing anything about it, and for the lowest available price accepting a B-Stock without checking the dealer and his knowledge, and now complains that it does not provide what he thought it does without prior checking if it really can do what he wants, and compare it with other instruments without knowing the basic differences between these. If I were him I would return the defect unit for a full refund of the money , and then go with a Yamaha, Roland or Kurzweil

[davlippo7]

I Understand all of that I didn't want to begin a separate thread because I'm probably going to end it with thread. I do buy lots of keyboards because I can only get to know them by owning them. I understand the types of memory and why this is only a stage board meant for limitations that it has but it's still very expensive being a stage board.

I like the board and capabilities mostly I just hate swapping out voices but if the best are already installed I guess we don't need to do that much. Without having it in hand in front of me and going through all those motions it's hard to know how it all works to very specific needs and to understand the limits. I did not buy it to only try it out and then to return it. I know I can also sell it anytime since I have a store.

The dealer claims they know absolutely nothing about the inside of the units. They document only each scratch, dent scuff etc. and apparently or speculation the wheel could have come off in shipping to my house it was only dangling on the pins. So it's likely the dealer thought it worked or it did when he had it. I think he said they don't have the expertise/time to press every button and turn every knob press every key and he said these came directly from Nord in these conditions not like they dented them in the store. I assume he's telling the truth because the rep on a phone call with me said they have "many" in this condition could even happen to parts on the assembly lines. Instead of trashing parts that are dented or scratched they set them aside and assemble as a "B-Stock" and ship it to this dealer. I'm speculating somewhat. The internal repairs were a bigger mystery on this generation of unit.

[davlippo7]

One more curve ball comparison.

We briefly talked about options like non-stage type options and other stage competitors because perhaps the NS4 isn't what I or we might want.

I have one not many will know about. The Ketron Event but it's not light but nor is any 88 key Nord.

It's probably the same price depending on your area. It can pretend to be a pretty impressive stage keyboard and more sounds and some superior real type sounds. We wouldn't consider a Yamaha Genos it can't do 10 layers (only 3) like the Event and no on surface effects panel.

I turned it on to compare to the NS4 far superior chorus & strings & brass & others and more of them. It can do both sampled and modeled organs even in (2) layers. (3) layers on left and (7) on right. The Pianos & EPs also competitive and more options I think.

But isn't it an arranger? Yes but it can be anything you want and even play real audio backing band parts. If sound is all that matters it probably sounds much better in many ways. Only the synth is a sampled voice (you can layer 3 up to 7) so there's no synth engine but does that really matter? It has physical draw bars using the faders.

I wasn't impressed with many of the Nord sounds for the asking price it should dominate any market for $6,000. Same deal I had the Yamaha YC73 and got the Event and was thinking why do I need the YC73 and sold it. Probably nobody knows about the Event as a stage option but you will sound better than anyone else and it doesn't look like an arranger from the rear. Just thought I'd mention it but if all you want are pianos and organs I can understand liking the NS4 but look at the Event if you want to set yourself apart.

[analogika]

The Ketron Event
[…]
But isn't it an arranger? Yes but it can be anything you want and even play real audio backing band parts. If sound is all that matters it probably sounds much better in many ways. Only the synth is a sampled voice (you can layer 3 up to 7) so there's no synth engine but does that really matter? It has physical draw bars using the faders.

What is your point?

That's just a (bad) arranger keyboard with completely generic, mediocre sounds. (And terrible, mismatched arrangements, to boot. The Genos/Tyros are a league beyond what you're showing in that demo — both in sound quality and in quality of the arrangement parts.)

If that's what you need/want, by all means get rid of the Nord, because that's a completely different market that Clavia isn't even remotely trying to compete with. These are players' instruments.

The hype on Nords, as far as I'm concerned, is that, whatever I'm doing, it feels like I'm playing an instrument — not operating a box pretending to be some other instrument.
In addition, just the other day, I had a rehearsal where I'd sketched out the rough lines and chords for a song we're adapting from studio recording to stage performance. I went from playing a rough sketch on organ to having a fully arranged, stage-ready program with synth strings, two different blended organs, and a Rhodes piano in under two minutes during a brief rehearsal break. With chorus, tremolo, EQ, delay, and reverbs.

Nothing else comes close to the immediate programmability of a Nord Stage (3 in this case). Though I admit, I haven't tried the Yamaha copies — the YC looks like it has a similar approach.

[davlippo7]

You obviously haven't heard the sounds inside the Event in comparison to the Nord.

Other than organs and pianos it wins all others by a mile with and keep in mind I'm comparing them on the exact same HiFi system side by side. Not really speculating about it. IF I kept it longer I could do a video voice to voice but why if I'm automatically shot down.

Could I do what you described on the Event on Stage in 2 minutes? Yes, maybe 3 minutes, it has instant effect section knobs maybe not as many options on the surface. But it's also an arranger which the Nord only dreams about and cost the same. Just to point out when you asked what's the point, well, that it there are other options for this price range that do more stuff except the synth section I'd only have to select a synth that's ready to go.

The strings, brass, solos instruments many are REAL in say super articulations, guitars, winds, base, etc. all great individually but then you can layer (2) sets of (3) voices in seconds and blow the Nord away and make different instruments come in using different velocity touches on the keys.

For example your wanted to build "voice set 1" into an orchestra. Nord could use all slots in the synth section such as Violins, Brass and Winds but then you have nothing left. Event has (2) sets so you could have all those on (1) and build or add (3) more on top of that and still have and organ and (3) more voices on the left side for base and guitars etc. Only difference is you're using a capacitive touch screen instead of physical knobs.

The quality of the sound and samples is far superior except for the organs and pianos which you probably from stage in a live mix couldn't tell any difference. It's meant to be superior because it must replicate the real world because it's an arranger. Best I can explain is when you're playing it, it's a REAL & LIVE band or orchestra playing not saying Nord aren't good it's just a different league like college vs pro football. IF it wasn't designed to be better it wouldn't be an arranger.

But my point is why can't this arranger be used on a stage in a band and make that band sound better?

[Tracii]

That's an apple vs pears comparison, I know the Event as a product (Ketron is an Italian company btw) even if I have never tested one personally, but when you say

Other than organs and pianos it wins all others by a mile

of course, but Nord Stage was born primarily on Organs and Pianos instead...

Could I do what you described on the Event on Stage in 2 minutes? Yes, maybe 3 minutes, it has instant effect section knobs maybe not as many options on the surface.

which is instead what Nord Stage points to, less parameters/controls but 90% available on the panel, to make it easier to tweak them Live while playing

But it's also an arranger which the Nord only dreams about and cost the same. Just to point out when you asked what's the point, well, that it there are other options for this price range that do more stuff except the synth section I'd only have to select a synth that's ready to go.

Of course Nord is not an arranger and doesn't mean to be, comparing keybaords just by the $ is a nonsense (there are same or more expensive mono-synths, so what?)

The strings, brass, solos instruments many are REAL in say super articulations, guitars, winds, base, etc. all great individually but then you can layer (2) sets of (3) voices in seconds and blow the Nord away and make different instruments come in using different velocity touches on the keys.

see first point and then repeat 2 times "the Nord Stage is not a workstation, it is not marketed as such or meant to be"

The quality of the sound and samples is far superior except for the organs and pianos which you probably from stage in a live mix couldn't tell any difference.

but how realistic and responsive an instrument is does make a difference for the player and so also for the final musical (not just "audio") result.

It's meant to be superior because it must replicate the real world because it's an arranger. Best I can explain is when you're playing it, it's a REAL & LIVE band or orchestra playing not saying Nord aren't good it's just a different league like college vs pro football. IF it wasn't designed to be better it wouldn't be an arranger.

Nope, they are same league of 2 different sports like Football and Baseball (Arranger/Stage Piano)

But my point is why can't this arranger be used on a stage in a band and make that band sound better?

Of course it could and some people do that, the choice is yours as a player: if NS4 does not inspire you to play it or (even if it does) you feel limited by its design, you should return it and live happily with the Event (or any other keyboard you like more than the NS) and play it in any context you want.

[Gambold]

(ALSO POSTED ELSEWHERE, BUT I GUESS THAT THREAD IS CLOSED)

Coupla things:

--Clavia is a Swedish company so you can't expect the same kind of customer service culture that we get in the States. I'm not saying you should...business in the States tend to have a "customer is always right" attitude and will often bend over backwards to accommodate complaints. We can get spoiled with this...just like when you go through the checkout counters in France and the cashier isn't all smiley and chatty like they are here...it's just a different culture.

--Clavia's business model is built on distributors. They don't directly deal with retail customers. They MAY deal with you if you are an institution and placing a large order, but even then I would guess they would farm you off to a local music distributor. So calling them and expecting them to have staff to deal with your board's issues is the wrong approach...you need to work with whoever sold you the board.

--It's true that of all the keyboard manufacturers, Clavia is the least likely to get back to you about anything. My guess is they have a very small office staff, most of whom probably have a shaky command of English, and they just don't have the time or training to work with the general public. Their website has no "about us," you have no idea who runs the company, there is no name or contact info for customer service, there is no phone number and the email is a form for "tech support" that likely gets forwarded to your local distributor - if it's regarded at all.

--This forum used to have a very good person who acted as a liaison to Nord, and handled or advised on a lot of problems like yours. While he insisted he was not officially engaged by them, they nonetheless promoted him on their website and on their Facebook page. He was intensely useful and then one day he left - and didn't give us a reason, which of course makes one speculate that it wasn't a happy parting. Clavia has never replaced this person, which gives you an indication of their own priorities. If he was still here, I'm sure he'd troubleshoot with you and then tell you to work with your distributor.