Nord User Forum

Gambold wrote:I can't speak for what the prices are in Europe, but here the Stage 3 88 is now selling for $4200. The Stage 4 is selling for $5700. That is a $1500 difference, an almost 36% increase in price.

C‘mon - that’s just 300 bucks per year on average, quite affordable inflation rate and nothing to complain about

Well, well compared to Krog Nautilus, Stage 4 is not a great bargain.....isn't it?

Well, I don't want to sound like I'm the Voice of the Common Man here. However, given that the general chorus of this thread is aggressively defending an eye-popping (and some might aver ridiculous) price for a digital keyboard using ten-year old technology, that can only mean We the Nord People are definitely eating cake, while the masses crow for bread.

Pass me another cucumber and caviar sandwich please, and I'll go see if the Veuve Clicquot is chilled enough yet.

Oh, I'm not defending it by any means. I just think Nord is, as much as anybody, subject to it, not the cause of it. Could they take a haircut on their profit margins? Sure. Could they offer a lower-priced tier of still-eminently-capable boards? Sure. Is the Stage 4 an emblem of All That is Wrong with the World? Well, one can certainly argue the point. But then so is literally everything else. My point is only that this is the way the industry clearly sees it, and it's the way that anybody who is not a charity is probably going to act.

OTOH, it sure opens up a nice mid-low market space for people willing to put some work in and find a way to manufacture a worthwhile entry into that spot, perhaps. Though R&D costs have skyrocketed too (even the cheap PCB prototyping houses with their ultra-budget tiny protoboards charge a lot more these days than they did just a year or two ago, once you get into the bigger and more useful real-world-sized PCBs with more than 2 layers), so that might just not be in the cards either.

st2ex wrote:Well, well compared to Krog Nautilus, Stage 4 is not a great bargain.....isn't it?

The Korg Nautilus like the Stage 4 is old technology in a shiny new package. The Nautilus internally is the old Kronos with new case with less controls, and some changes to the touch screen interface. So the tech inside is old. The Yamaha MoDX and Montrose are basically the same internally the MoDX has one less processor chip. All these board it's mainly software changes.

docbop wrote:

st2ex wrote:Well, well compared to Krog Nautilus, Stage 4 is not a great bargain.....isn't it?

The Korg Nautilus like the Stage 4 is old technology in a shiny new package. The Nautilus internally is the old Kronos with new case with less controls, and some changes to the touch screen interface. So the tech inside is old. The Yamaha MoDX and Montrose are basically the same internally the MoDX has one less processor chip. All these board it's mainly software changes.

I think that some of us have said that already - every manufacturer is pretty much evolving their “signature” technology and have been for years.

Every model digital piano, synth or rompler is an evolution of their ancestors, some going back many many years. Roland, Korg, Yamaha, Kurzweil - they’ve all been doing it and have tech and sounds carried from the 1990’s. Even a company like Dexibel is built from the ashes of the old Roland Italy group.

Mellotron is still a hallowed name in the music industry and their library is 50+ years old! Their new tech at NAMM? Creating a sound card with some stuff they dug up from years ago including (OMG!) looped versions of their old sounds. And it costs much more than it should.

It’s astounding that Sequential can release a Prophet Five reissue and the synth world is on fire about it, yet we’re going to complain because we think Nord (arguably one of the highest quality digital piano libraries available today) are not innovative enough? Give me a break.

I look at some of the minimal setups on Gearspace and I think they’re very weird. But the people using them are very happy and are making music. Instead of griping about what Nord is doing or not doing, we should just make our music. I don’t own a lot of instruments, but I’m inspired by what I do have and enjoy the music I play and the people I play it with.

cphollis wrote:FWIW the stages of a new Nord being announced:

- intense enthusiasm, curiosity and detail sharing
- disappointment when it's obvious that it is a logical progression of what came before
- faux outrage over cost, piano samples, etc. (Gambold's usual beef)
- grudging acceptance that the new one is much better and there are no real alternatives
- purchase of said new Nord
- sale of old one as it isn't worth the effort to maintain two libraries of patches

I am quite proud that I am now getting through this periodic event much faster and with a lot less stress than before.

It's not my intent to ignite acrimonious tones about this, so please know that I say the following with a spirit of good will.

What you say has certainly a lot of truth to it and it's more about human psychology rather than musical instruments in themselves. But because of this, I think it's also fair to add one more point to your list, as a striking contrasting alternative to the disappointment / outrage response, that is:

- attempt to always find justification for whatever the manufacturer did (pricing, features, etc.), regardless of what I had thought until a moment before the release, or even what I privately think now.

Not that I want to play the hobbyist psychologist, but this does seem to happen quite often, and I am not claiming to be immune myself either. The thing is, one can indeed always find some sort of justification for whatever choice the manufacturer happens to have made. It's much easier to make such arguments to sound right and "cool" as opposed to observing that something might indeed not be right, also because playing the contrarian isn't aligned with the tribalism that we humans more or less are doomed to be subject to, like it or not.

So to defend the manufacturer (Nord, in this case) will always make the poster feel better and part of a community (which in this case happens to be the community of Nord fans) than the post of the one raising some question marks about certain decisions the manufacturer has made.

Again, just an observation, I hope it doesn't sound provocative because that's not my intent.

Hlaalu wrote: - attempt to always find justification for whatever the manufacturer did (pricing, features, etc.), regardless of what I had thought until a moment before the release, or even what I privately think now.

Not that I want to play the hobbyist psychologist, but this does seem to happen quite often, and I am not claiming to be immune myself either. The thing is, one can indeed always find some sort of justification for whatever choice the manufacturer happens to have made. It's much easier to make such arguments to sound right and "cool" as opposed to observing that something might indeed not be right, also because playing the contrarian isn't aligned with the tribalism that we humans more or less are doomed to be subject to, like it or not.

So to defend the manufacturer (Nord, in this case) will always make the poster feel better and part of a community (which in this case happens to be the community of Nord fans) than the post of the one raising some question marks about certain decisions the manufacturer has made.

Again, just an observation, I hope it doesn't sound provocative because that's not my intent.

It is always good to discuss, I think the problem sometimes is also the usage of polarized terms like "accusation/justification" or "attack/defend" instead of more neutral terms like instead of "explanation" and "analyze "(i.e. trying to understand the logic behind certain choices)

If you've spent time studying economics, you'll know that prices always move towards an equilibrium between supply and demand, and that's true whether the participants like it or not! Nord is in the same brand category as Rolex, Porsche and others. None of those are objectively worth their prices, but enough people buy them.

So do we think that with all the grumbling on price, there'll be a poor showing on sales leading to a reduction in price?

No one pays RRP for these boards, but the Stage 4 is only £60 under (being brand new) whereas the Grand is currently £600 under RRP however I believe RRP on the grand has increased £300 since release.

I'm really, really tempted on a Stage 4 but the price is putting me off. I need to shift my current board but the Stage 4 is more than twice as expensive as it was new.