Stage 4 Song Mode ?

[cphollis]

So, it appears that Layer Scene II is simply allowing the user to turn on/off any of the 7 layers with the push of a button. From Page 42 of the manual:

"Pressing the LAYER SCENE II button switches from Layer Scene I to II or vice versa. Each Layer Scene is configured by turning Sections and Layers On or Off as desired for each Scene respectively. Again, note that any specific Layer uses the same sound and settings for both Scenes, and that the Layer Scene configuration only determines whether the Layer or Section is turned On or Off."

The 8 banks X 8 pages X 8 programs per page for a total of 512 programs is far less flexible for my current workflow than the NS3's 400 Programs and 400 Songs with 5 pointers each to any of the 400 Programs. Looks like my use case is an outlier and I'll have to figure out something different if I ever switch to the NS4.

Don't get me wrong, there seem to be a number of nice NS4 upgrades that I would enjoy if misfortune were to befall my NS3s, but I can now relax knowing that I'm better off with an NS3 for my current needs and workflow. GAS has been effectively dissipated for the immediate future.

Ah! Thanks!

That being said, there still remains a lot of sonic ground one could cover using a combination of LAYER SCENE and faders, so I will still need to re-think how I use Programs down the road. Sooner or later, I will get one, figure out how it works, and start migrating my workloads ...

[Al_DeKlein]

With Section Presets of 2x64 Organ, 2x64 Piano, 8x64 Synth and based on my NS3C use of mostly Dual Keyboard panel A-B *or* piano x organ-synth splits, losing Song Mode does not appear to be as dire as I originally thought. Between that many Presets to pull from, an additional 112 programs, Program Organize function and new AUX KB structure, it may actually be better than Song Mode was on the NS3 ... albeit different.

If I decide to make the NS3 to NS4 jump, I see it as a similar process I went through making the jump from the NE5 to my current NS3C.
1) Reprogram my mind with a new NS4 logic and structure.
2) Formulate an NS3C to NS4 migration path and process.
3) Delete all NS4 Section Presets that, while they may be good examples of the NS4 capabilities, I know I'll never need.
4) Build the Section Presets I need to build the NS4 Programs to replicate my NS3C Song patches.

It may seem like a daunting task on the surface, but I'll choose to look at it as a great NS4 learning experience... I just need to think about if i want to swap my AUX KB setup from my current 88-key controller x NS3C on top *or* NS4-88 x 61-key controller on top, now that physical drawbar are included with all models.

[SuperStage]

So, it appears that Layer Scene II is simply allowing the user to turn on/off any of the 7 layers with the push of a button. From Page 42 of the manual:

"Pressing the LAYER SCENE II button switches from Layer Scene I to II or vice versa. Each Layer Scene is configured by turning Sections and Layers On or Off as desired for each Scene respectively. Again, note that any specific Layer uses the same sound and settings for both Scenes, and that the Layer Scene configuration only determines whether the Layer or Section is turned On or Off."

The 8 banks X 8 pages X 8 programs per page for a total of 512 programs is far less flexible for my current workflow than the NS3's 400 Programs and 400 Songs with 5 pointers each to any of the 400 Programs. Looks like my use case is an outlier and I'll have to figure out something different if I ever switch to the NS4.

Don't get me wrong, there seem to be a number of nice NS4 upgrades that I would enjoy if misfortune were to befall my NS3s, but I can now relax knowing that I'm better off with an NS3 for my current needs and workflow. GAS has been effectively dissipated for the immediate future.

I use the song mode extensively on the NS3 to organize my programs into sets and songs without duplicating programs. It seems that we will need to rethink this and likely have to duplicate programs to organize by song in the NS4. Based on the substantial change to the architecture, I’m guessing that none of the NS3 programs can be ported over and will need to spend hours reprogramming.

[superbender]

So, it appears that Layer Scene II is simply allowing the user to turn on/off any of the 7 layers with the push of a button. From Page 42 of the manual:

"Pressing the LAYER SCENE II button switches from Layer Scene I to II or vice versa. Each Layer Scene is configured by turning Sections and Layers On or Off as desired for each Scene respectively. Again, note that any specific Layer uses the same sound and settings for both Scenes, and that the Layer Scene configuration only determines whether the Layer or Section is turned On or Off."

The 8 banks X 8 pages X 8 programs per page for a total of 512 programs is far less flexible for my current workflow than the NS3's 400 Programs and 400 Songs with 5 pointers each to any of the 400 Programs. Looks like my use case is an outlier and I'll have to figure out something different if I ever switch to the NS4.

Don't get me wrong, there seem to be a number of nice NS4 upgrades that I would enjoy if misfortune were to befall my NS3s, but I can now relax knowing that I'm better off with an NS3 for my current needs and workflow. GAS has been effectively dissipated for the immediate future.

Don‘t you miss the 768 presets in the new Nord stage 4? Programs uses these presets as a basis. In my opinion the process is totally different. Programs are more or less pointers to presets, with the advantage that you do the tweaking in the program and do not have to change the preset. That was the bad thing with the song mode as i constantly had to duplicate my programs in case I need minor changes. Programs in the Nord Stage 4 are different than in a Nord Stage 3. We all have to re-think the process. What do you think?

[cphollis]

I have already started to wrap my head around what I will need to do at some point.

I'd start by creating my own library of preset sounds that I know I will need: organ, piano, synth/sample. I am looking forward to dialing in FX for each one once and only once. This will likely take several multi-hour sessions, so not trivial. Each sound will be dialed in to sound great "naked", e.g. not layered with other voices.

I would then start running through the set list, and create one or more programs for each. During this process, I will find I need to either adjust existing presets (risky) or create new presets (safer) along the way. The programs themselves can be freely organized, and there is enough real estate for multiple set lists. I can't imagine needing anywhere near the maximum capacity for any section preset bank.

Bottom line: it looks like it's a manageable project. It will take weeks before I am satisfied with the result. At the end of it, my sounds will be better organized, and more controllable. There will be no going back after migration, either

[superbender]

I have already started to wrap my head around what I will need to do at some point.

I'd start by creating my own library of preset sounds that I know I will need: organ, piano, synth/sample. I am looking forward to dialing in FX for each one once and only once. This will likely take several multi-hour sessions, so not trivial. Each sound will be dialed in to sound great "naked", e.g. not layered with other voices.

I would then start running through the set list, and create one or more programs for each. During this process, I will find I need to either adjust existing presets (risky) or create new presets (safer) along the way. The programs themselves can be freely organized, and there is enough real estate for multiple set lists. I can't imagine needing anywhere near the maximum capacity for any section preset bank.

Bottom line: it looks like it's a manageable project. It will take weeks before I am satisfied with the result. At the end of it, my sounds will be better organized, and more controllable. There will be no going back after migration, either

That is exactly the process I will run to. But one little thing I understood differently. The programs do use the preset only as a starting point. So if you change a preset it will not impact an existing program which based on this preset. For me this is a very good difference to the Song Mode on the NS3, where I had to change the underlying programs all the time and ended very often in different versions.
The new NS4 approach simplifies the workflow. (1) I start with a program, (2) select up to 7 presets, (3) tweak whatever I want in the program and (4) use the sound. If I have to change something during a rehearsal/on stage I can do it directly in the program and save it.

[neomad]

I did that exactly and was pointless to me. Last thing I found is to name the patch identically to the song name, and avoid using song mode for most of the simple songs: onsong pro is sending cc messages to the right patch. For medleys, I use the song mode a lot. If you want more complexity, Camelot Pro can do the job (yes, you still need a tablet)

[superbender]

I'd start by creating my own library of preset sounds that I know I will need: organ, piano, synth/sample. I am looking forward to dialing in FX for each one once and only once. This will likely take several multi-hour sessions, so not trivial. Each sound will be dialed in to sound great "naked", e.g. not layered with other voices.

I'm still not convinced I could fully do it that way. I'm quite sure a portion of 'basic' sounds will need to consist in two layers: AP + digital piano, AP + synth or synth + synth (rarely organ + synth). So if some day I switch to the NS4, there will probably be patches like 'Piano WestCst A' and 'Piano WestCst B' which need to add up. Or 'Strings 1 Bass' and 'Strings 1 Treble'. So, first thing would be to scan my sounds in what way they are put together (don't remember all). I'm not sure, I'd simplify them down to 1 layer just for the sake of a neat preset library.

Fortunately, there are now many more possibilities to combine engines even for playing on a remote keyboard.

[superbender]

I'd start by creating my own library of preset sounds that I know I will need: organ, piano, synth/sample. I am looking forward to dialing in FX for each one once and only once. This will likely take several multi-hour sessions, so not trivial. Each sound will be dialed in to sound great "naked", e.g. not layered with other voices.

I'm still not convinced I could fully do it that way. I'm quite sure a portion of 'basic' sounds will need to consist in two layers: AP + digital piano, AP + synth or synth + synth (rarely organ + synth). So if some day I switch to the NS4, there will probably be patches like 'Piano WestCst A' and 'Piano WestCst B' which need to add up. Or 'Strings 1 Bass' and 'Strings 1 Treble'. So, first thing would be to scan my sounds in what way they are put together (don't remember all). I'm not sure, I'd simplify them down to 1 layer just for the sake of a neat preset library.

Fortunately, there are now many more possibilities to combine engines even for playing on a remote keyboard.

I understand your concern about the one layer problem. Thinking about this, it may also be useful to start building the programs for songs and build the presets liabary out of these programs. Then your preset liabary will increase over time and can then be used. If you start with songs which uses your goto sounds, you are also building your own "program-presets" which you can copy for other songs.

By the way we started using bandhelper with the complete band. Currently I have to use my Yamaha Modx 7, as I had to return my NS3C to get a NS4C. It is really easy to send Midi changes to the keyboard for song switches. I think I will use this in the future to reduce dependency of the features in my current gear. That is my lessons learned about the missing song mode.

[Lumserei]

I need the Song Mode mainly to keep all external effect stuff (e.g. EQ2 Source Audio) via Midi in sync with my NS3 presets layer independent each song mode position get the corresponding preset in the EQ unit. Which technique could the NS4 provide for this?