Nord User Forum

I just watched the next video of a Former Music Conservatory Student and the Nord Hoodies. Who ARE these people? Does anyone play blues or pop music anymore?

Is it too much to find someone who used to work retail to belt out Don't Stop Believing? I mean it's a terrible song but if you're in a cover band, know it or die.

Here, a Stage in the real world:

Not directed at anyone in particular:

If you own a NS3 and aren't blown away by the new features, then be happy! You've got a great board, and you've saved yourself a whole lot of money in selling it and buying a new one. Other people will say this is a great upgrade for them. Other people will be looking at this, not compared to the NS3, but compared to buying a Fantom or a YC88 or whatever, and they will come at it from a different angle. In short... Use what you like! If Nord doesn't give you what you want, stick with what you've got, or buy something else. I think Nord's gonna do just fine with this.

And spalding12, getting back to the memory, I'm with cphollis, I've never felt constrained by the 2 GB of piano memory. The different pianos appeal to different tastes, and only a few really appeal to me, and they are sufficient for all my piano needs on the board. I've got space to spare. More piano memory was never on my wish list to begin with. Heck, I'd rather my NS3 had half the piano memory, if I could have had the 8 patch select buttons and the preset library features of the 4 (with the extra fx/etc. sections that the preset library requires, as I mentioned earlier). Those changes are much more useful... to me. There's presumably a cost to being able to handle all the new simultaneous sound and effects capabilities, and IMO, the dollars were better spent there than on more piano memory. I certainly wouldn't want to pay hundreds of dollars more than it already costs, just to have piano memory I'd never use.

analogholic wrote:Hmm...the Kurzweil Forte had like what 3.5 GB? Don't remember when it was released exactly but IIRC way before NS3. And then it had 16GB non user loadable Flash, like a ROM

Yes, the Forte came out before the NS3, and it was the first "high capacity" Kurzweil (up until then, the largest Kurzweil piano was 128 mb, and I don't think any model had more than 256 mb total sample memory, and that was still less than ten years ago). But they don't use the really pricey kind of memory that Nord uses. How did they get around it? They invented something. They patented what they call "FlashPlay" which allows them to do what they do with a less expensive kind of memory. I don't know exactly what they did, but however they did it, Nord can't do it the same way, because, well, Kurzweil patented it. And patents last 20 years.

Yamaha similarly has some patented technology which allows the Montage and MODX to use a cheaper kind of rewritable memory than the expensive (Nord-like) kind they had been using previously (as on the flash board I linked to earlier). But even those models still have under 2 GB of rewritable memory. (From what I read, their design is not currently capable of the larger capacity of what Kurzweil did.)

maxpiano wrote:If I remember well Forte "Flash play" actually used SSD streaming, so not the same type as Nord more similar to Kronos. Anyway it was not such a successfull product afaik.

I don't think it's SSD, but as to its success, it's been used ever since, it's the reason the PC4 and K2700 have as much memory as they do.

WannitBBBad wrote:Opinion: so far I'm not blown away by the videos. All of the artists are incredible players indeed, but most of the videos are focused on sounds that earlier Stage models could easily create.

The differences aren't so much in sound, they are in functionality. That's always been the case, with pretty much any "next Nord" that you buy. The pianos are the Nord pianos. The samples are the Nord samples. The organ varies a bit, but not so much so that you could not create a fundamentally similar sound on any other organ model. Similarly, the synth sections vary a bit, but for most typical synth uses, I'd say they're not night-and-day differences except to the VA purists.

The fact that the sounds don't change very much is probably part of why older models retain their value so well. Since you can load the same samples (even new ones that come out after you buy your board), the older models can sound much like the new, and vice versa. IOW, it's not a bug, it's a feature.

Swampfox wrote:The loss of the extern panel is a disappointment

It simply appears to have been integrated into the synth section. There's no reason to believe the EXT function is any less capable than before. In fact, if looks like you can now have up to 3 EXT sounds in a program instead of 2 (if your program does not require an internal Nord sample/synth sound).

anotherscott wrote:

WannitBBBad wrote:Opinion: so far I'm not blown away by the videos. All of the artists are incredible players indeed, but most of the videos are focused on sounds that earlier Stage models could easily create.

The differences aren't so much in sound, they are in functionality. That's always been the case, with pretty much any "next Nord" that you buy. The pianos are the Nord pianos. The samples are the Nord samples. The organ varies a bit, but not so much so that you could not create a fundamentally similar sound on any other organ model. Similarly, the synth sections vary a bit, but for most typical synth uses, I'd say they're not night-and-day differences except to the VA purists.

My point is that none of the videos are separating the Stage 4 from its predecessors. A video showing the increased functionality, synth capability, and features beyond the core sounds we love is what I'm looking for.

WannitBBBad wrote:

anotherscott wrote:

WannitBBBad wrote:Opinion: so far I'm not blown away by the videos. All of the artists are incredible players indeed, but most of the videos are focused on sounds that earlier Stage models could easily create.

The differences aren't so much in sound, they are in functionality. That's always been the case, with pretty much any "next Nord" that you buy. The pianos are the Nord pianos. The samples are the Nord samples. The organ varies a bit, but not so much so that you could not create a fundamentally similar sound on any other organ model. Similarly, the synth sections vary a bit, but for most typical synth uses, I'd say they're not night-and-day differences except to the VA purists.

My point is that none of the videos are separating the Stage 4 from its predecessors. A video showing the increased functionality, synth capability, and features beyond the core sounds we love is what I'm looking for.

we will have to wait until some company from the UK post a video in the next week
nord apparently isn't going to do that
dumb as hell to show THESE videos first
the description on their page was an afterthought
apparently, none of the supposed 40 employees has ANY background in marketing

Gambold wrote:I just watched the next video of a Former Music Conservatory Student and the Nord Hoodies. Who ARE these people? Does anyone play blues or pop music anymore?

Is it too much to find someone who used to work retail to belt out Don't Stop Believing? I mean it's a terrible song but if you're in a cover band, know it or die.

Here, a Stage in the real world:

Everyone's needs are different, but if Nord started posting videos of their artists simply playing old cover tunes, I wouldn't give them a second of my time. I'm not interested in that and that's not what I play. To each their own, but so far the videos have all been great today in my opinion!
Now, the videos don't make me want to go buy a Stage4, simply because almost all the sounds it makes (excluding the new effects) can be created with existing models already. But were I in the market for one I'd most definitely grab the 4 over a 3.
Videos like the ones Nord posts are showing off the dynamics and expression that you can get out of their samples (if you can play on that level, anyway.) Not sure what posting classic rock cover songs would show? That they can cut through a mix? Then they can simply post a heavier original composition to show this off instead.

anotherscott wrote:There was no keyboard 20 years ago that had nearly that much. Or even 10 years ago, except for Kronos (which as maxpiano put it, is a " "PC in a keyboard chassis"). Even today, there are no Yamahas or Rolands (though Roland emphasizes their modeled V-Piano rather than large sample sets). Dexibell only recently broke 2 GB with the new S10, their previous boards maxed out at 1.5 GB... which they still boasted about because, in fact, even that was still more than most of their competitors. The S10 has 3.2 GB, so that's now about the same as the NS4, since the S10 has one memory pool for all of its samples (instead of the 2 GB for piano section, 1 GB for other).

The newest model of GSI Gemini has 8 GB free for sample expansion. You can't load user samples, however... Also I should point out that the new Gemini costs exactly the same as the older one did with less memory. Not sure what system they are using?

Gambold wrote:I just watched the next video of a Former Music Conservatory Student and the Nord Hoodies. Who ARE these people? Does anyone play blues or pop music anymore?

Is it too much to find someone who used to work retail to belt out Don't Stop Believing? I mean it's a terrible song but if you're in a cover band, know it or die.

Here, a Stage in the real world:

I interpret this as Nord going more after the church/worship market, which is incredibly lucrative for a musical instrument manufacturer. This, to me, is why you see mostly worship-style musicians doing the demos (albeit dressed up in pseudo Neo-soul garb). I used to work with someone who played in a church praise band and the church owned several Stage 2's. There's money to be made there. Institutions are less sensitive to these high prices as well.

It's a model Hammond has been practicing for years. None of their stuff is cheap, and they have (I understand) a thriving market.

One other point - if you watch Later with Jools Holland, a UK show that features a lot of European bands, Nord keyboards are quite prominent.

tsss27 wrote:

Gambold wrote:I just watched the next video of a Former Music Conservatory Student and the Nord Hoodies. Who ARE these people? Does anyone play blues or pop music anymore?

Is it too much to find someone who used to work retail to belt out Don't Stop Believing? I mean it's a terrible song but if you're in a cover band, know it or die.

Here, a Stage in the real world:

Everyone's needs are different, but if Nord started posting videos of their artists simply playing old cover tunes, I wouldn't give them a second of my time. I'm not interested in that and that's not what I play. To each their own, but so far the videos have all been great today in my opinion!
Now, the videos don't make me want to go buy a Stage4, simply because almost all the sounds it makes (excluding the new effects) can be created with existing models already. But were I in the market for one I'd most definitely grab the 4 over a 3.
Videos like the ones Nord posts are showing off the dynamics and expression that you can get out of their samples (if you can play on that level, anyway.) Not sure what posting classic rock cover songs would show? That they can cut through a mix? Then they can simply post a heavier original composition to show this off instead.

The videos you call great should be posted next week or the week after
today the company should post videos about the unit itself
has anybody seen the comparison they put up on their own website about the stage 3 and stage 4?
It's hysterical
six years of wait for the few changes that they even admit themselves
forget about the price increase
but the fact that they had the nerve to put up that comparison which showed that they basically have done little to nothing in six years when it comes to something electronic
in this era
crazy

spalding12 wrote:

Gambold wrote:>shocking that this is what we get after six years<

I don't know if it's shocking. It's a top-end product, and the best of its kind out there. The pricing is an assault, but...if they can sell them regardless of that, than the market has spoken. They will likely get a lot of institutional orders, and maybe that's all they need to maintain the pleasant buzz of running a small, well-regarded company and keep the coffers full. Innovation and major design changes cost a lot of upfront money - why spend that when they are humming along.

I do not disagree with you
but the memory issue is garbage
no one wants to have less than a full quality sample installed because of memory limitations
that should never happen anymore even if they want even more money to give you a unit with more memory
2 GB of piano samples is reminiscent of keyboards from 20 years ago
and the fact that they didn't add anything six years later is ridiculous
in fact it's insulting
it should've been 4 GB
that would've cost them less than you can imagine

It would have cost them a lot mare than you might imagine.

Ballpark:
From what I can see, the NOR Flash RAM used in these machines is availabe in 512 Mbit chips at maximum. In bulk, 2 GBytes of this stuff costs a manufacturer between 250€ and 400€ — without taxes, and as raw material.

So 500€ of the manufacturer's pure component cost is JUST the memory.

No taxes, no assembly, no profit, no distributor margin, no dealership cut.

I'm not saying that this is the only option they have — you can go the Kronos route and build a full Linux PC that takes two-and-a-half minutes to boot and loads samples from a standard SSD into RAM, or you can go proprietary patented routes like Kurzweil — but given the tech they *are* using, doubling the memory adds maybe 800€ or more to the actual sales price.

Given the exploding component costs over the past three years, and the fact that they are not in the least a heavy player like Yamaha — just a small shop building a couple hundred machines, total, a month — I'm not surprised that this is where they are conservative.

It just requires us to do a little sorting-out, rather than just having the entire sample library along at all times.

Swampfox wrote:The loss of the extern panel is a disappointment

Quote Another Scott: ''It simply appears to have been integrated into the synth section. There's no reason to believe the EXT function is any less capable than before. In fact, if looks like you can now have up to 3 EXT sounds in a program instead of 2 (if your program does not require an internal Nord sample/synth sound).''

I hope you're wrong in suggesting that to use an External you have to sacrifice an internal synth. This would mean you could only have 3 in total compared to 4 (2 internal synth + 2 External) of all previous Stage models.