And so, October…

[Gambold]

>Next, somebody will suggest that they could reduce prices and sell 100x the number of keyboards if they moved manufacturing to China.<

The fear of "Made in China" is becoming like tree trunk rings...it betrays the age of the person expressing the concern. Yes, crap is made in China, lots of it. Also lots of very fine things are made in China, including my current IPhone 13 Pro. Clavia will always be responsible for the quality of their materials and workmanship, regardless if they continue as an independent or as a subsidiary company.

And yes...making 100x the keyboards at reduced prices would be a wonderful thing for everyone, assuming those standards were maintained. Being "bought out" is not the television movie scare we have grown up with. Gretsch was bought by Fender and now their guitars are superior and better-priced than they ever were when independent. Yamaha owns Ampeg and Line 6 and both those companies are doing much better, with deeper product lines and market share, as a result.

[M1tsos]

Yamaha owns nexo also which is 1 of the top speakers brands in the world.. and we cant compare yamaha with any other brand guys… yamaha is probably the older and the bigger one in the market.. also they sell motorcycles, pianos , digital pianos , analogue and digital mixers, brass instruments , guitars, basses , drums, percussion, speakers,.. and their quality is more than just decent.. so as a company overall in my eyes yamaha is number one..

Now about the prices that everyone argue for clavia.. i admit its a bit overpriced but this isnt bad at all.. they keep being pricy at used market also.. so in everyway you dont lose much when investing at nord keyboards… you lose more when investing in other brands instead of nords..

Im saying this from personal experience of my small business that i sell and rent music sound and lighting equipment

[sonicblue]

Now about the prices that everyone argue for clavia.. i admit its a bit overpriced but this isnt bad at all.. they keep being pricy at used market also.. so in everyway you dont lose much when investing at nord keyboards… you lose more when investing in other brands instead of nords..

Im saying this from personal experience of my small business that i sell and rent music sound and lighting equipment

It's true I was selling my Nord at a loss of just 200 usd. But I'd say, if I bought the Nord for 2000 usd instead of 4000 I'd not be sad. Electro 6 today in not worth the price. Piano 5 with this poor keybed? C'mon!

[analogika]

>Next, somebody will suggest that they could reduce prices and sell 100x the number of keyboards if they moved manufacturing to China.<

The fear of "Made in China" is becoming like tree trunk rings...it betrays the age of the person expressing the concern. Yes, crap is made in China, lots of it. Also lots of very fine things are made in China, including my current IPhone 13 Pro. Clavia will always be responsible for the quality of their materials and workmanship, regardless if they continue as an independent or as a subsidiary company.

You just betrayed your age by reading something into my post that I didn’t write.

I’m well aware that lots of wonderful things are built in China. It takes logistics and money to maintain quality control, but there is amazing stuff built for ridiculous prices. I mentioned it because that would be the primary cost-reducing factor for the hardware, as it would allow much larger quantities for much lower prices.

But those economies don’t really work for Clavia. From within our own myopic worldview, we fail to realise how TINY this market actually is. The market doesn’t expand just because you flood it with more, cheaper stuff.

People don’t collect a dozen Stage keyboards the way they do microphones, and these things are specialised products that don't appeal to the home market the way digital pianos do (by far the best-selling keyboard products. By far.)

And yes...making 100x the keyboards at reduced prices would be a wonderful thing for everyone, assuming those standards were maintained. Being "bought out" is not the television movie scare we have grown up with. Gretsch was bought by Fender and now their guitars are superior and better-priced than they ever were when independent. Yamaha owns Ampeg and Line 6 and both those companies are doing much better, with deeper product lines and market share, as a result.

Fender isn’t doing too hot, I gather.

And while Yamaha is an example of a conglomerate where things seem to work out overall, there are two things to point out:

1. The brands Yamaha buys generally expand their portfolio, not compete with it.

2. Gibson.

[Gambold]

>Fender isn’t doing too hot, I gather.<

???

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/21/fender- ... demic.html

[analogika]

>Fender isn’t doing too hot, I gather.<

???

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/21/fender- ... demic.html

Ah, thanks for the update. Last I had heard, they were doing all they could to destroy their dealer network and go bankrupt.

Yep, opening of the article says it all:

"Business was looking pretty grim for Fender Musical Instruments Corp., the legendary guitar maker, when the coronavirus pandemic reached U.S. shores last March. Suddenly, 90% of its worldwide dealers’ physical stores closed, as did many of its online sellers’ distribution centers. Fender’s factories in Corona, California, and Ensenada, Mexico, shut down, furloughing hundreds of employees. Its headquarters in Scottsdale, Arizona, shuttered, as did its Hollywood hub, where CEO Andy Mooney and his management team work.

“We were looking over the edge of an abyss, frankly, and went into company preservation mode,” Mooney told CNBC in late October, while still running things from his home in L.A. after summering in Long Island. He and every other one of Fender’s roughly 2,000 employees took up to 50% pay cuts. “We just tightened our belt.”"


The only reason they're doing okay is because the hella lucked out with the Covid pandemic.

Their survival is through no fault of their own.

[Schorsch]

>Fender isn’t doing too hot, I gather.<

???

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/21/fender- ... demic.html

Ah, thanks for the update. Last I had heard, they were doing all they could to destroy their dealer network and go bankrupt.

Yep, opening of the article says it all:

"Business was looking pretty grim for Fender Musical Instruments Corp., the legendary guitar maker, when the coronavirus pandemic reached U.S. shores last March. Suddenly, 90% of its worldwide dealers’ physical stores closed, as did many of its online sellers’ distribution centers. Fender’s factories in Corona, California, and Ensenada, Mexico, shut down, furloughing hundreds of employees. Its headquarters in Scottsdale, Arizona, shuttered, as did its Hollywood hub, where CEO Andy Mooney and his management team work.

“We were looking over the edge of an abyss, frankly, and went into company preservation mode,” Mooney told CNBC in late October, while still running things from his home in L.A. after summering in Long Island. He and every other one of Fender’s roughly 2,000 employees took up to 50% pay cuts. “We just tightened our belt.”"


The only reason they're doing okay is because the hella lucked out with the Covid pandemic.

Their survival is through no fault of their own.

Yes it’s based on the harsh cuts of costs, like 50% payment cuts and maybe also other savings on expenses due to heavily reduced travel activities - once this gets back to normal they might be back in trouble

[Gambold]

Fender may be running up and down the ladder but they are out there trying. The same cannot be said for Nord.

But we've all said our peace: the gatekeepers have gate-kept, the cranks have cranked - let's revisit in January and see if anything has happened.

[analogika]

Since you mention Fender, they do guitars and basically the same guitars since decades, but that's not a problem because they still sell, non one complains and they sound good, right?

Nord is also still selling its models pretty well (for the company size, which probably they want to keep) and probably more than in the past, so why should they feel pushed to be in a hurry for new ones? Anyway, we'll see a NAMM I guess

[Schorsch]

Looks as if Nord is taking a more careful and conservative/defensive approach, counting on its customer base and image of their products. Is this a good strategy? We’ll see, probably not because image does not stay forever… but on the other hand it’s probably a deliberate choice to stay and survive in a niche rather than widening the portfolio and looking for permanent growth.