anotherscott, thank you very much for your remarks!
anotherscott wrote:
* YC has simultaneous drawbars and LED indicators (a given NS3 will have either one or the other, but never both... and related, on the NS3's that have the LEDs like the 88 model, adjusting them with the up/down buttons is more awkward that being able to adjust them with the YC's drawbar sliders)
Added this to the spreadsheet. In my view, I think we have two different interfaces that you can get used to. Of course you can have a preference. In this case, I don't see it as a matter of better or worse, just different. Nord is already including physical drawbars in cheaper models so there's must be a solid reason for this to happen which I don't know as of now.
anotherscott wrote:
* YC has endless encoders with LED rings for more functions (NS3 has them for volume only), which not only instantly indicate their current settings but also prevent jumps when adjusting
Good point. Also added it to the spreadsheet. This is something that was lost into the NS2-NS3 transition. In my situation, I don't touch much of my settings while playing, and if I do, I do it via morph with pedal, but I understand that some for some use cases that can be a problem.
anotherscott wrote:
* YC has USB digital audio input (you only mentioned output)... this means, for example, you can add external sounds from an iPhone/iPad by connecting just a single cable between them, instead of having to run one cable to get the MIDI from the keyboard to the iOS device and then a separate audio cable back out from the audio device to the keyboard (which besides meaning running an extra cable, also becomes another issue if you have one of the iOS devices that doesn't have a headhone audio out jack)
Good point, I also added it to the spreadsheet.
anotherscott wrote:
* YC is much cheaper ($3000 vs. $4700, plus another $400 if you want the triple pedal advantage you list)
I didn't want to get there. We could also add the fact that the soft case is much cheaper on the Nord side and it's offered at a very low price in bundles. It's up to you to decide if the difference on the Nord side make sense.
anotherscott wrote:
* YC has looper
Looper Delay you mean? I didn't find any other reference.
anotherscott wrote:
* the FM instrument sounds on the YC are actually generated by FM, rather than being sampled versions (most notably the FM EP sounds, though the YC also includes classic FM sounds like the DX7-style basses, bell sounds, harmonica, brass, strings, guitar, etc., actually generated via FM)
That is not completely accurate. Even there are DX7 Sampled Sounds in the Nord, the synth is capable of doing FM. You can even see quite a few FM presets.
anotherscott wrote:
* the standard sustain pedal jack on the YC supports half-dampering on the pianos (you have to buy that $400 triple pedal to do that on the Nord)
Good point. But when you get the Nord triple pedal you're getting three pedals plus stuff like pedal noise. So I don't find that a 1:1 comparison. You're getting much more with the triple pedal
anotherscott wrote:
There are also some differences where people may disagree about which board is better, but they are significant differences where someone may clearly prefer one to the other:
Agreed
anotherscott wrote:
* Yamaha gives you 8 simultaneous single-button preset recall buttons instead of 5 on the Nord.
Good point. Added it to the spreadsheet. I find myself just hitting next and sometimes previous on the pedal.
anotherscott wrote:
Though the Nord has an alternate patch selection mode that gives you 2-keypress access to 25 patches at a time (but then you have NO single-button preset recall function).
I'm a little lost here.
anotherscott wrote:
* Yamaha places the reverb after the rotary effect, Nord places the reverb before the rotary effect. (Ideally, this would be a switchable parameter, as it is on the Hammond SK Pro, so you could have it work whichever way you preferred.)
True. They both should provide that flexibility.
anotherscott wrote:
... certainly "overall quality" is subjective
True. I shouldn't have written that. Even though, after trying both of them, both materials and sounds look quite nicer on the nord.
anotherscott wrote:
... Both boards' organ sections employ modeling, not just Nord... Yamaha talks about their "Virtual Circuitry Modeling (VCM) Organ engine. But modeling per se is a questionable "advantage" here anyway, since a given tech can still provide either better or worse results than some other method... some clonewheel boards/VSTs that have employed samples have sounded better than some others that were strictly modeled. Along the same lines, Yamaha generates their transistor organ tones via FM... it's not inherently better or worse than other methods, you'd have to evaluate and compare the results, rather than declare a winner based on the tech used to get there and/or the words used to describe it.
You make some valid points. Even though I think you misunderstood my post. I was using the plus '+' sign to indicate that Nord offers more modeled organs(5 vs 3). To be honest, I think that there is quite a consensus around Nord Organs being one of the top digital organs out there. And after playing around with Nord and Yamaha VCM at the store I subscribe to that idea. Comparison videos can also be checked on the internet and I think the difference is quite clear. You might disagree of course.
Again, the Nord has FM capabilities and can generate organ sounds via that method.
anotherscott wrote:
... You say the Yamaha uses 1.5 GB of samples, I'm curious where that figure came from.
I was checking again and I found out that the [anchor= goto=
http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthread ... /3079727OS]seems to be 1.1GB,[/anchor] so there is where the assumption comes from.
Let's be honest. If the sample memory of YC was superior, Yamaha would be announcing it everywhere. I think in that area Nord has way more memory. If you find more accurate information, please let me know.
anotherscott wrote:
But regardless, this is again an example where I think you're comparing the wrong thing, because you're looking at the spec rather than the audible results. The Nord FM electric piano sounds are sampled (albeit using only a small amount of memory). Yamaha's FM electric piano sounds use no sample memory whatsoever, but they are far superior because they are actually created via FM.
That's not completely accurate, Nord has also FM capabilities, meaning you can have electric piano FM sounds.
anotherscott wrote:
And Nord may indeed have more total sample space, but outside of the piano library, it can't assign more than one sample to a sound (as you mentioned with the YC advantage, "Multisampled Non-Piano Samples"). I think comparing memory specs can be useful, for example, on those boards where you're loading your own samples, or when you're comparing two boards that have otherwise similar architectures, but in the context of boards that have entirely different ways of using the memory, comparing how much memory they have I think can be misleading.
I don't think it's misleading at all, You can have more multi-sampled pianos on the Nord, that's a fact and I think it's important.
I think what is misleading is to compare the ability to store synth patches( by the way, Nord can store up to 400, so still wins) to sample memory. That is, in my view, misleading.
anotherscott wrote:
... You say "Full Featured Configurable Synth vs FM Only Synth" -- I think you're missing the real distinction between these synths, and maybe conflating different things (methods of synthesis and amount of editability, which are really two different things). The comparison here is, (1) Nord has a VA (virtual analog) synth (though it does include some limited FM capability), whereas Yamaha has a full FM synth (but no VA synth); and (2) the Nord VA synth is fully editable, whereas Yamaha's FM synth is presets only (though there are a handful of things you can modify, like attack/release and filter cutoff).
I'm not missing the distinction.
If you check the spreadsheet, you'd see that the Nord has infinite more synth capabilities than the YC.
I can subscribe to the idea that FM capabilities are somehow limited. But what do we know about YC's FM?
Again, if there were something remarkable, or better than the Nord they would be announcing it everywhere. But they are hiding it, or at least I'm not capable to find the real specs.
If you have something better, you show it in your marketing materials.
And of course, you have very limited editing capabilities, let alone create your own patches from scratch...
anotherscott wrote:
... You say that the Nord has more piano polyphony, but it's the opposite, 120 vs 128 on the Yamaha.
You have a point.
You have to note that 128 AWM2 Polyphony is shared with VCM.
So, in an Organ + Piano scenario, where the Nord has full on the organ and 120 on the piano, we can see there is a huge a difference.
anotherscott wrote:
(Though polyphony doesn't always get "used up" at the same rate when comparing boards, so it's not necessarily a totally straight-forward comparison regardless, especially when the numbers are this close.) There's also the flip side of this, that the non-piano non-organ sounds on the Nord have only 34 polyphony, whereas the Yamaha has 128 for those if they're sampled (albeit shared with the piano and tonewheel organ polyphony, if you're combining those sounds) plus the Yamaha has another separate 128 polyphony for its FM sounds. Nord offsets that on the organ side, where its organ section has its own polyphony that doesn't take away from other sounds' polyphony if those sounds are used in combination with organ. In terms of real world application, I don't think polyphony makes much real difference between the boards, even though you could come up with particular combination scenarios that favor one or the other. But if I had to pick a winner here, I'd say it would be Yamaha, because the maximum total polyphony on the Nord for non-piano non-organ sounds is 34, whereas the maximum total polyphony on the Yamaha for non-piano non-organ sounds is 128 for sampled sounds plus 128 for FM sounds, and that's a pretty extreme difference that could apply in a scenario that would not be so uncommon. That is, if you were going to hit ANY polyphony limit on EITHER of these boards, the most likely first one to hit would almost certainly be running into the Nord's 34 brick wall.
I agree with you that the lowest polyphony we can find is the 34 one on the Nord Synth/Sampler.
I think Yamaha has been very clever with this "shared polyphony" as they make numbers look bigger than what the actual capacity is. They are not lying, though...
As you say, it really depends on the particular configuration to see which one would peak.
I think there are many scenarios where the Nord would be a winner, though.
anotherscott wrote:
... You say Nord has an advantage of two dedicated rotary speakers, I'm not sure what you're saying, but Yamaha has two kinds of rotary speaker in the rotary section (RTR A and RTR B, available to organs only), plus a third rotary effect in the insert effect section (available to all sounds); and unlike on the Nord, you can put an organ through one rotary effect and simultaneously put another sound through another rotary effect. That said, I group this into the same category as some of the advantages you've listed above that I disagreed with... that it may technically be true and it may look like an advantage on paper, but may be offset by a real world result, which in this case is that NONE of the Yamaha rotary effects sound as good as Nord's, despite Yamaha having a generally more flexible rotary implementation.
There are two pannels, A and B with a dedicated instance (not an insertion effect) of the rotary speaker.
As you can see, there are some effects that Nord is implementing separately, what I call, "dedicated", that Yamaha is putting as insertion effects. I think that, on the first place, that reduces the actual number of simultaneous effects you can have, and on second place, they will never be as good as a dedicated instance.
anotherscott wrote:
... You list Organ Rotary Balance(Bass - Treble Balance) as Nord advantages, but the YC has those rotary settings as well...
That one is one me. Fixed spreadsheet.
anotherscott wrote:
in fact, the Yamaha has many more speed, balance, and acceleration options than the Nord does. But again, it's a dubious advantage, since the less flexible Nord rotary still sounds better.
It has a numeric linear settings, that doesn't mean that adding 0.1 will make a difference. I think that what Nord did here was to establish the three most common points that people uses, as they could simply allow a numeric approach with a software update.
Also, on the Nord you can choose the mic placement and trigger point...
anotherscott wrote:
... You list organ swell pedal as a Nord advantage, but YC has that too. Both keyboards support two continuous pedals. On Nord, one is organ swell, and the other is definable for many functions. On the YC, both are definable for many functions, and one of the things you can define a pedal for is organ swell (it corresponds to an expression setting).
I think on the Nord, swell is more than "expression". As described by Nord
Nord User Manual wrote:
Swell is not only a volume control - for the B3 it also changes the character of the sound in a special way.
Nord User Manual wrote:
Though one big Nord advantage you left out is it's great Morph implementation!
That is a good point that I forgot, as many others as you've seen.
In short, I would just say that I feel the Nord to be more complete and better sounding that the YC. Of course, they'll be some things better done on the YC, and of course, the YC is cheaper. But I wanted to give it a look since it was marketed as Nord killer. I think It's not. But stills being a good keyboard.
Cheers and let me know if there's anything else you'd like me to take a look so we have the best spreadsheet for future buyers 
