Isn't it time for more flexible velocity curves?

[maurus]

I agree there is no need to make Clavia aware of this issue in any other specific way. They will indeed be aware of the more substantial discussions here, evaluating them from their own perspective (which may differ from ours). I suppose Clavia is one of those smaller companies who know rather well what their user base wants, and who make their decisions according to their own agenda (which they should), but certainly aware of the needs and wishes of their users.

In fact I am sure people at Clavia have pondered the action issue for acoustic pianos quite seriously, and are pondering it again whenever a substantial upgrade of their instruments is in the making. After all, piano is apparently one of the instruments that are dear to founder Hans Nordelius (see the interview that Marlowes has posted recently on here).

[ADSRLFO]

Good velocity curve...
Controlled by my old Kurzweil 250 , ( Nordstage 2 SW 73 ) all the pianos and epianos are being revived.... much better sounding !!!

[michael_C1]

One reason I can think of for the default curve's not reaching lower velocities is that the perceived volume of the instrument would be lower at those lower velocities, making it necessary to increase our amplifier levels. I think that's a fair tradeoff for the instrument's increased expressiveness, but some people might not. However, since recent Nord's have slots for several different curves, if more options were available to us, we could chose for ourselves.

[Merlimau]

I was curious about MIDI velocity. According Wikipedia the following mapping reflects the music dynamic system:

ppp: 16
pp: 33
p: 49
mp: 64
mf: 80
f: 96
ff: 112
fff: 126

So that means by normal playing on my NS2 I’m between pianissimo (35) and mezzo forte (80-95). Maybe this is the reason why we like to spread the curve. The method MIDI velocity gets measured on a NS2 could be also limit the system. My finding when only Piano is on: the last ca. 5mm distance before the key hit the bottom the MIDI value gets created. All what is before these ca. 5mm creates no MIDI value.

Increase our amplifier levels helps as well -> my wife makes always louder otherwise she say is not sounding like a piano…

[jazzystu]

I bought a horrible cheap 61 note controller. It has assignable everything.

With unweighted plastic keys, it was more like my old Rhodes Suitcase to play than the Nord. I was astounded. It made the clavinet.

I'd like to see a couple of tunings for the piano section (stretched/equal) and different curves. Even if you've got to change them on a computer interface.

If they change the velocity section, I will buy a new stage. I think eventually, the next one will be like a 2EX rather than anything truly awesome.

[PScooter63]

Does the triple pedal help? I was thinking of buying it...

Using the soft/una corda pedal did soften the tone, but if I recall correctly that was across the board, and playing harder didn’t give back normal brightness and volume when that pedal was down. So, it didn’t increase the dynamic range.

On a real grand piano, the una corda pedal is indeed intended as a tone colorant, not as a cheater for dynamics. It shifts the entire set of hammers slightly to the right, such that a) in the upper range, only two strings per key are struck, rather than all three, and b) across the entire instrument, a different section of each hammer impacts each string... a section where the hammer felt isn't nearly as compressed (hardened) as the default position through regular use.

[michael_C1]

Does the triple pedal help? I was thinking of buying it...

Using the soft/una corda pedal did soften the tone, but if I recall correctly that was across the board, and playing harder didn’t give back normal brightness and volume when that pedal was down. So, it didn’t increase the dynamic range.

On a real grand piano, the una corda pedal is indeed intended as a tone colorant, not as a cheater for dynamics. It shifts the entire set of hammers slightly to the right, such that a) in the upper range, only two strings per key are struck, rather than all three, and b) across the entire instrument, a different section of each hammer impacts each string... a section where the hammer felt isn't nearly as compressed (hardened) as the default position through regular use.

There's no argument from me. And an acoustic piano hammer is needled differently for different depths of the felt, so that playing softly gives a mellower tone, and playing harder reaches a hammer depth that's harder/more dense and the tone is therefore brighter.

Unlike on an acoustic piano, we can't reach the softer dynamics of Nord's excellent sampled pianos with their present velocity curves- unless we use the una corda pedal, which as you say, wasn't intended for that, or else if we do a MIDI loopback with some method of velocity adjustment in-between.

[magic_dillitzer]

+1 Agree totally

[bluesbaba]

Some time ago Clavia produced a lightweight very good sounding Piano with options to receive and change future new better (or just different) sounds.
Great we thought and bought )
After a while users started to throw feedback back to Clavia since this was a new product and everyone was exited.
The critique was mostly positive just a few problems.
And one of the main points from user view was the velocity!
Well i do not remember when but a year later or so Nord piano 2 came out !!!!! And guess what.... Layers and an extra velocity curve..... Well that was exactly what we that bought NP1 wanted all along so we where left standing in the dirt ;(
Buy a new piano or be left behind.
At that point i was close to sell,frustrated very disappointed and non the less owner of a expensive and professional red piano.Cheated.
It is very difficult to sell a second hand high value specialist tool in the country i live in.
Anyway i really hope that Clavia will develop something for us piano players that makes it possible to change the velocity curves to better suit playing all kind of styles

[jimmyjames]

As per the original past in this thread...how many of you have connected your respective Nord to some type of weighted action controller to see if it sounds different to you? I use a PX-5S almost exclusively to play the piano sounds on my NE4 because I really dislike the way they sound when I use the NE4 keyboard....it makes them sound "squishy". To me it sounds better, more dynamic playing through the Casio...but I wonder if that's really the case. I've never measured the MIDI values to see if indeed you are able to achieve a wider range this way.

I have the feeling that, beyond the compressed response from the Nord keyboard, Nord piano samples may also be more compressed than piano samples from other keyboards or, perhaps, Nord piano samples don't include velocity layers for ppp and fff due to size or quality issues (yes...I have entered the realm of uneducated speculation). The Casio piano sample is extremely dynamic...too dynamic for my taste (probably from listening to the compressed Nord samples for many years), but you can dramatically adjust the response of the sample and keyboard on the Casio. Funny though...most of the follow-up programs for the Casio have compressed the sound dramatically so it sounds more like the Nord. No doubt a compressed sound is better in a higher volume ensemble setting where I venture the majority of use is probably had for both keyboards.