Stage 3 Rivals?

[Deleted User 31551]

Thanks for all your feedback.

I'm trying to elaborate a comparison chart but there seems to be way too many things to take into account !

[anotherscott]

I think the Kronos is definitely a rival regarding the piano and e-piano and "sub" sounds quality, to me they sound far better (but this is subjective of course). The new Fantom is great, too...But as others mentioned you cannot directly compare a live stage keyboard and a versatille workstation (Kronos and Fantom).

Right, as some of us have noted, Kronos is a different kind of board, falling into the workstation category that the OP in his initial post said he wasn't looking for. Same with the Kurzweil that has been subsequently mentioned. But I put Fantom in a different category, it's kind of a hybrid, because of all the dedicated synth section controls.

I'm trying to elaborate a comparison chart but there seems to be way too many things to take into account !

Again, nothing is going to exactly match what an NS3 does except an NS3. But in terms of boards with a lot of direct, dedicated, knobby controls, as I said, I could roughly see making comparisons with the SK Pro, YC, and Fantom. (And at generally less total functionality but a similar overall approach, there are the Electro, VR09/VR730, and Vox.) What you'd lose on the YC was already discussed in some detail. The main things you lose on the Hammond are the aftertouch, the dedicated real-time effects controls, the ability to load custom samples, and the fact that the real-time synth controls (and VA method of sound generation) are for monophonic synth sounds only. But you gain some things, too.

I've really just been talking about functionality. Sound quality (and related, often tweakability and variety) is a whole other discussion, which some others have touched on. But for example, of the boards I've been focusing on, I'd rate them this way:

ORGAN/LESLIE:
1. Hammond
2. Nord
3. Yamaha
(I don't know enough about the Roland's new organ implementation to rank it yet)

PIANO/EP:
1. Probably Nord and Yamaha... with Nord having the edge on acoustics, Yamaha on electrics
3. Roland
4. Hammond

OTHER ACOUSTIC INSTRUMENT SOUNDS (strings, brass, etc.)
1. Roland
2. Yamaha
3. Hammond
4. Nord

ANALOG-TYPE SYNTH SOUNDS:
1. Roland
2. Nord
3. Hammond
4. Yamaha

This perpetual work-in-progress spreadsheet might help you too...

[Davey Nordy]

I tried the YC88 out extensively, side-by-side with the NS3 88 in my home.

First of all, the YC is *pretty*. I like the looks. I do not, however, like the little “toggle” switches. They’re not toggles, they’re momentary. They’re too small, and to me, counter-intuitive. My fingers bend downward, and while I’m playing I’d prefer those toggles to activate when I press downward (toward the keys), not upward. I found myself using my thumb to turn these “on”. I adjusted, but if I tried to use my fingers, sometimes I’d miss the thing. The Nord is so much easier.

My main beef with the YC was the organ section SUCKS. Not even CLOSE to Nord. The bass rotor is non-existent. Literally. I would hold a single low note, and ramp the thing up and down, and to my astonishment I heard NO Leslie effect on the bass! Maybe I had a setting wrong, but I never did hear it. Oh, and THE LESLIE SUCKS. And guess what?… there is no option to add something like a Vent, BECAUSE THERE IS ONLY ONE SET OF OUTPUTS ON THIS BOARD. So, there’s no option to separately run the organ to a dedicated output. Sure, you can bypass the Vent when you want to play pianos, but this is a lot of work on a 3K board. Also the draw bars are VERY stiff to operate. They’re too tight. The pure tonewheel sound is fundamentally pretty good, but I expected a MUCH better organ section.
PLUS, WHY DIDN’T THEY BUILD IT TO TRIGGER HIGH, like the Nord? How could they get this SO WRONG? I’ve heard the BS explanations from the Yammie fanbois, but it’s ridiculous. if you’re building a board to compete with Nord……..

No synth. Fundamental sounds are good, but standard.

The pianos are no big whoop. I just reluctantly sold my Yamaha CP4, which I compared directly to both of these boards. I personally still prefer the CP4 over the YC88. Pianos were warmer, and less digital sounding.
BUT…
Neither compares to the Nord Pianos. Nord is the best.
The best action is on the CP4. The new action on the YC88 is a bit heavier and mushier, but still very good. But I must say, the new action on the NS3 is the best yet. I think they have finally struck the right balance between Piano, EP’s, and Organ.

I sent the YC88 back without a single regret.
Sold the CP4 with a bit of regret.
Kept the NS3.

From what I’m seeing, there is nothing else on the market.

[Davey Nordy]

Though sure, it is also missing some NS3 features... most notably:
* the complete VA synth
* aftertouch
* custom sample loading
* more flexible output routing

You forget that the NS3 has two panels, 6 vs 3 sections for the YC. Also think the morphing functions on the NS3 is way more flexible. The restriction to only two audio outputs on the YC also makes it irrelevant as an NS3 rival for someone like me often using a real Leslie with the NS3.

I found the same exact thing.

[daniel70]

I have the YC73 next to my trusty old NS2/76 since several weeks and while the organ is obviously better on the Nord (at least the YC organs are much better than those in the CP73/88 models), i like the Yamaha Rhodes samples much more than those in the Nord. The Nord Rhodes are indeed very playable and some of them can be played very dynamic and they cut through the mix very well, but for me they are always sounding more like a Nord than like a real Rhodes and i possessed and played many of them in the last 35 years. The Yamaha samples on the YC‘s and CP‘s are simply more authentic to me, especially the 78RD and the 73Studio. Wurlys are also top notch for my ears. And while i love the Nord white grand sample to death, i find the CFX sample on the YC73 is not bad at all. There are some great synth leads, pads, bass etc. too, which i can tweak to my taste. My conclusion: As a player who uses my stagepiano mainly to replace my real Rhodes (and occasional piano, organ and synth), which stays often at home/in the rehearsal room, i can imagine to change from the Nord Stage, which is indeed a great board, to the YC73.

[anotherscott]

I’d prefer those toggles to activate when I press downward (toward the keys), not upward.

This might be a matter of where you live. In some countries, most light switches are on in the up position, but on others on equals down. If you're used to on being up, I think the YC operation feels correct. But if you live somewhere where on is generally down, then I could see where it would feel wrong.

i like the Yamaha Rhodes samples much more than those in the Nord.

I agree, I prefer the YC88 EPs to those on the NS3.

[Davey Nordy]

I have the YC73 next to my trusty old NS2/76 since several weeks and while the organ is obviously better on the Nord (at least the YC organs are much better than those in the CP73/88 models), i like the Yamaha Rhodes samples much more than those in the Nord. The Nord Rhodes are indeed very playable and some of them can be played very dynamic and they cut through the mix very well, but for me they are always sounding more like a Nord than like a real Rhodes and i possessed and played many of them in the last 35 years. The Yamaha samples on the YC‘s and CP‘s are simply more authentic to me, especially the 78RD and the 73Studio. Wurlys are also top notch for my ears. And while i love the Nord white grand sample to death, i find the CFX sample on the YC73 is not bad at all. There are some great synth leads, pads, bass etc. too, which i can tweak to my taste. My conclusion: As a player who uses my stagepiano mainly to replace my real Rhodes (and occasional piano, organ and synth), which stays often at home/in the rehearsal room, i can imagine to change from the Nord Stage, which is indeed a great board, to the YC73.

Yamaha has the best EP’s, followed closely by Korg. Several years ago I decided to pass on the NS2 because the EP’s were not good enough. The latest round of samples are 95% of Yamaha- enough that I decided on the NS3.

Not quite with you on the CFX. “Not bad at all” is not good enough for a board trying to directly compete at a cost of 3K. I agree with your sentiment, it’s just that Nord has the best pianos. The thing that killed the YC was the organ section. I’ve had older Roland stuff that had better organs. Just not acceptable.

[cphollis]

While it's all well and good to research specifications, making comparison charts will be difficult, as many areas are subjective. I gravitated to the Stage as APs are #1 for me, followed by organ and EPs and then everything else where I just wanted good enough. The workflow of creating, navigating and chaining sounds is about as simple as it can be, also a subjective aspect.

Knowing what you really want from a board is a big help.

[Deleted User 31551]

In terms of synth, I've tried to look at info on the YC Series. It says it has 8 FM Operators for the organ, and that synth is also FM. It doesn't provide further information. Does anyone know? And how it compares with the NS3? I understand that NS3 has FM capabilities but I don't know if they can rival the ones in the YC.

[Davey Nordy]

In terms of synth, I've tried to look at info on the YC Series. It says it has 8 FM Operators for the organ, and that synth is also FM. It doesn't provide further information. Does anyone know? And how it compares with the NS3? I understand that NS3 has FM capabilities but I don't know if they can rival the ones in the YC.

Well, the Nord has an actual “synth” section (thought I’m barely a layman), whereas the Yamaha doesn’t- they’re presets. That being said, Yamaha is the KING of FM.