Rotor Toggle not working correctly

[Valpurgis]

Nevertheless, musicians talk of "pedal polarity" if they mean open-idle and closed-idle types. And some can even be switched between normal-open (NO) and normal-closed (NC).

Which still means it is meaningless to «reverse the polarity» of a Korg pedal to make it work with the mentioned brands.

[baekgaard]

Nevertheless, musicians talk of "pedal polarity" if they mean open-idle and closed-idle types. And some can even be switched between normal-open (NO) and normal-closed (NC).

Which still means it is meaningless to «reverse the polarity» of a Korg pedal to make it work with the mentioned brands.

For a toggle switch, where every press down and up will change state between open and closed, you are right that it's hard to tell which is the default state.

For a sustain-type of pedal, there are two types, as FZiegler points out. Either the pedal is open when in the default non-pressed state, or closed.

Using a Korg pedal with a Yamaha board will make the board sustain when you don't press the pedal and vice versa. Nord boards guesses which is which and works with either (or you can set it yourself). If you hold down a pedal when the board starts or when you connect it, it will sustain when not pressed.

You are right that technically this is not "electrical polarity" with reference to any inherent electrical potential of the pedal.

However, people still sometimes refer to it as pedal polarity, and we tend to know what they mean... In fact, the word polarity as it's first meaning (MW) is "the quality or condition inherent in a body that exhibits opposite properties ... contrasting properties ..." so it's correct and acceptable use of the word for all non engineers

Sent from my phone in brevity

[Valpurgis]

My comments was related to analogika stating «If you want to use a pedal with anything other than a Korg or a Kurzweil, including all Rolands, Yamahas, Casios, and all manner of vintage synths, IIRC, you’ll need to reverse it.»

It is quite easy to interpret this as to rewire the tip and ring. I cannot really see the point in change the internal toggle switch of a Korg sustain pedal instead of buying a compatible pedal.

[analogika]

Everybody commenting that the difference isn't in "polarity" but rather "open-closer" vs. "closed-opener" switch type is absolutely correct, of course.

However, the term commonly used for this technical difference is in fact "polarity", and every single shop sells their sustain pedals as "polarity reversible" if they have a mode switch.

Echt jetzt? Okay, so you see how much I have been socialized in the Korg universe, stayed too long and gave it up some 20 years ago... But the Kurzweils I have (K2, PC3, PC3k) do not care for polarity. They check it while booting up and adapt.
But... as far as I remember fiddling around with the pedal switches, I believe "no sustain" was contact open and "hold it" was contact closed in the Korg. In the very beginning I had a very cheap pedal where this was clearly to identify. While I guess the Yamaha was vice versa, which I understand as "turned around". This old pedal did not work in my first Yamaha then (SY77) so I was forced to buy my first Yamaha Fswitch. And well, I am not quite sure, but I believe for some time I also owned a Roland D70, which also did not work with the Yamaha, but the old pedal. But that is so long ago... I just remember sticking the Yamaha pedal in some other instruments, and the notes start to hang.
Was wrong over all those years?

My Roland JX-8P works with the Yamaha pedal I have here. I'm sure you're misremembering, unless Roland switched standards between 1985 and 1989.

The Kurzweil pedals* I worked with when the local philharmonic hired me to backline an SY99 and a Kurzweil K2000 for a ballet production were inverse from the Yamaha ones. So while the K2000 is capable of auto-sensing, the SY99 was NOT, so when a Yamaha FC7 gave up an hour before the show one night, the backup pedal (an extra Kurzweil) would hold everything, and the pianist FREAKED out. I ran to the workshop, ripped apart the pedal, flipped around the switch, bent the contacts so that they would work properly, and had it working fifteen minutes before the show.

*) I'm pretty sure they were OEM Kurzweil pedals.

[Schorsch]

I ran to the workshop, ripped apart the pedal, flipped around the switch, bent the contacts so that they would work properly, and had it working fifteen minutes before the show.

Nice story but what a nightmare

[maxpiano]

Everybody commenting that the difference isn't in "polarity" but rather "open-closer" vs. "closed-opener" switch type is absolutely correct, of course.

However, the term commonly used for this technical difference is in fact "polarity", and every single shop sells their sustain pedals as "polarity reversible" if they have a mode switch.

Yes, the "polarity" wording is commonly used so better deal with it (i.e. accept it even if technically incorrect); just for info, pedals with a mode/polarity selector make use of a SPDT type of switch and the selector just "selects" which of the SPDT outputs (see pic below) to connect to one of the cable/jack poles (the other being always GND, of course)

[analogika]

I ran to the workshop, ripped apart the pedal, flipped around the switch, bent the contacts so that they would work properly, and had it working fifteen minutes before the show.

Nice story but what a nightmare

Tell me about it!

Got it working, that was the main thing.

[Normhart]

From these reports, it looks like the problem is very hit-and-miss. I always used the included Nord sustain pedal (which is a standard Fatar VFP1) without any problem, except for a very brief period (a couple of weeks) when the leslie speed flickered as you describe, but then the problem just disappeared. I imagine there was some dirt in the contacts that went away by itself.
I also used a 20-years old Kawai pedal with no issues. Sometimes I have problems with small plastic switches like the Yamaha FC5, Boss FS5 etc, but I'm not sure if it's because of the dodgy contacts or simply because the switch moves around so much that I'm not able to control it properly.
Anyway, I never had a pedal consistently fail so much that I could unambiguously consider it malfunctioning.

This is my Yamaha FC5 I use to toggle rotor speed on my NS3. It works flawlessly and is quite reliable. It’s also not a plastic pedal. I believe these come with some of their lower end digital pianos and is plastic. I’m not sure if it’s also called an FC5 but the one sold separately (like mine) is metal and rubber.

[Kaffimusic]

I have several of the same type.
But... in contrary to what I have written above about flawless working, I just found out my (decades old) pedals do work with everything else I own, but not with the rotary of the NS3. It is plugged into the sustain, Rotary is programmed to react on that and I have the same problem with flickering control, sometimes it gets on, sometimes not. On my Kurzweil I do the same, no problems, also with the other (older or newer) gear I have.
The rotary control of the NS3 seems to be very picky, which might point to a software problem, since sustain on the same jack with the same pedal works without showing problems.
Usually I travel with 2 FC5, one is modded to reverse the "polarity" (let´s not discuss this word, please) of this pedal, and one is not. For either the Kurz as well as the Nord it should not matter, both identify it while booting and make it work according to that info.
I have quite unused FC5 here too, which I keep as backup. With that it works as supposed. While I used it to program and rehearse the stuff for an upcoming gig. The pedals I use while giggin are in a different box.
Might have to do with plugging it into the jack that does sustain and also accepts pedals that do half pedaling. Maybe not. But I do not want to plug in another pedal just for the rotary. The NS should be able to do (at least) that the same like a (way older) Kurzweil does.
Somehow I am less impressed by the Nord as time goes by. Why is this not working? Why do I have to fiddle around and look for a problem?
I played my first gig with the Nord on last saturday and this was pretty annoying. This should not happen.

[Normhart]

Hopefully, this is an issue that can be resolved via a software update. To be honest, I only really started using footswitches to toggle rotor speeds when I got my NS3 as in the past I’ve gotten accustomed to my old C-3/122 and the ‘traditional’ half-moon toggle common on these instruments. In fact, I find myself reaching with my left hand for the panel switch more often than not just out of habit.