Nord User Forum

If you connect the NS2 with the DXR10 with the cable shown above (stereo jack to tulip RCA), how does the DXR sound?
(since the DXR will sum L & R, and I'm wondering if there is phase cancellation??)

Graspieper wrote:If you connect the NS2 with the DXR10 with the cable shown above (stereo jack to tulip RCA), how does the DXR sound?
(since the DXR will sum L & R, and I'm wondering if there is phase cancellation??)

It'll sound fine. Phase cancellation isn't nearly as big a problem as people make it out to be. It might affect some piano sounds a little bit, but everything should be perfectly useable. I run a mono monitor system with my entire rig summed to mono (always stereo out front though), and it's never been a problem.

or you can look at it this way: If the signal would be fed through a mixing desk via AUX send to a regular monitor, you'd get exactly the same mix of left and right channel that results from combining them in your speaker.

Try some Rhodes sounds and you will find out that phase cancellation is an issue for sure. I once had a -as it turned out- mono PA system in a rehearsal room and some Rhodes where almost completely gone except for the reverb. But I really do not understand why you would spend a lot of money on an instrument and then do all possible to make it sound sh*t for your own.

hijlko wrote:Try some Rhodes sounds and you will find out that phase cancellation is an issue for sure. I once had a -as it turned out- mono PA system in a rehearsal room and some Rhodes where almost completely gone except for the reverb.

You may be misunderstanding how phase cancellation works. Phase cancellation can occur where you have a stereo recording such that there are phase differences between the two sides. This can occur where a stereo micing system is used, as would be the case in the original recording of the pianos used by Nord.

However, Rhodes and Wurlitzers are mono instruments, and are not subject to phase cancellation in the first place.

If you hear a Rhodes or Wurly sample with left-right panned notes, then the panning has been added artificially, and if it was done by level difference eg using mixer panpots, then there is no phase difference, and again phase cancellation cannot occur.

When a Rhodes or Wurly is amped and then miced in stereo, that recording CAN be subject to phase cancellation to any stereo portion of the sound eg ambience, room reflections etc.

In the situation you described, what happened is obvious - the two PA speaker sides were wired out-of-phase with each other. This condition results in the complete or almost complete loss of center mono information (your Rhodes), while stereo information (your reverb) remains. In short, your Rhodes disappeared precisely because it was NOT stereo.

hijlko wrote:But I really do not understand why you would spend a lot of money on an instrument and then do all possible to make it sound sh*t for your own.

That's rather over-stating the case, to put it mildly. It's precisely because it doesn't sound like sh*t that I do it. Indeed, everyone actually comments on the superb sound my mono EV ZXA1 system gets, and I'm very happy with it. (I admit I'd still prefer a stereo pair, though).

It all goes back to my original contention that mono-ing your keyboards is not automatically the great destroyer of keyboard sounds that it is often made out to be. On occasion, sure, but usually it doesn't affect sound as often, or as much, as you think.

hijlko wrote:Try some Rhodes sounds and you will find out that phase cancellation is an issue for sure. I once had a -as it turned out- mono PA system in a rehearsal room and some Rhodes where almost completely gone except for the reverb. But I really do not understand why you would spend a lot of money on an instrument and then do all possible to make it sound sh*t for your own.

This is -unfortunately- true.
Of course, there are people in here who will try to convince you that "the donkey can fly"...

hijlko wrote:Try some Rhodes sounds and you will find out that phase cancellation is an issue for sure. I once had a -as it turned out- mono PA system in a rehearsal room and some Rhodes where almost completely gone except for the reverb.

Is it possible that the "phase invert" button was pressed one of the two mixer channels?
You'll get exactly the effect you describe.
This has actually some use as improvised "Karaoke effect" when listening to recorded music, to figure out what the band is playing.

The Rhodes samples are by nature mono. Hold a chord (with all effects off) and engage the "mono output" button. You'll hear no difference whatsoever.

And yes, those critters do fly and cr*p on my car roof but they aren't donkeys (fortunately)

costaseglezos wrote:Of course, there are people in here who will try to convince you that "the donkey can fly"...

Perhaps you don't know about my stock of genetically-modified donkeys - such ears!

There is another detail, the Mono button.
If you search this site you will find an old post quoting some email exchange between a user and Clavia where they clarify that for some stereo samples, the mono does a bit more than just adding R & L channels. They also said that in the mid-range, some effects of phase cancellation will be unavoidable, which makes me wonder whether the "Mono function" is a weighted mixing of the channels according to the note position.

Mr_-G- wrote:... whether the "Mono function" is a weighted mixing of the channels according to the note position.

Seems likely.
Another parameter that could be adjusted is the differential delay between the two channels, so that the direct path to both mics sums up coherently in the mono mix.
Note, this is just a wild guess. But at least in theory it could be done very cheaply by offsetting the sample start position on one side.