Nord Piano 5 [RELEASED]

[Hlaalu]

I meant how does it affect when playing with a guitarist? I don't get why this should make a difference?

It's not that it "affects" something...

The thing is, when you make a keyboard (whatever number of keys) you have to start somewhere and end somewhere, and the decision where to start and where to end is going to be an arbitrary compromise. That said, some compromises make more sense than others. We agree for example that it wouldn't be a logic choice to have a 61 key keyboard whose range goes to Gb to Gb. Apart from the fact that it would be aesthetically ugly to see, musically it wouldn't make much sense either, because each instrument type tends to be more convenient to play in certain keys than others, and Gb isn't one of them, neither for keyboards nor for guitars, horns and the like. Bb and Eb on the other hand, would make much more sense, musically. Again, regardless of the mechanical factor of building a keybed which starts and ends on a black key. C and F makes a lot of sense too, especially for keyboards themselves.

Now if you are to build a shorter keyboard (shorter than 88 keys, which in itself is another compromise, obviously), choosing E as the bottomest note could make some sense rather than any random note if you are trying to appeal to keyboardists who play with guitars or bass guitars, or, as Rusty Mike said, "in place" of bass guitars. E makes sense because convenient keys for guitars and bass guitars tend to be E, A, G, D and the like, and songs written for and by guitarists *tend* to be written in those keys. So again no rocket science here, but it does makes at least some sense that the range of your instruments more or less matches. One could easily flip the question: which note would you choose as the lowest and highest, and why (other than being purely arbitrary)?

[anotherscott]

I think the pricing point (and my recent dilemma) is..

But is the NP5 at £2499 really 2x the instrument of say;
Korg Grandstage can layer 2 pianos too and has RH3 action - priced around £1300 mark (which from all reviews I have come across and some owner testaments is an excellent board)
Kord SV2 - EP based 73 key, premium sounds and RH3 action £1399
Yamaha CP73 - I can see one in a UK shop £1199 - Can layer 3 sounds, better action, arguably a copy of Nord in the layout
Yamaha YC73 - £1899 - Newer incarnation of CP73, not sure on the differences but still is £600 cheaper then NP5
Kurzweil Artis 7 - £1008

etc. etc. .

Sounds and actions are subjecive, as is how much a given amount of improvement in sound or action is worth in dollars/pounds. But here are what I see as some key functional pros and cons vs the NP5, which could sway someone in either direction...

Grandstage 73:
+ pitch and mod wheels, multi-velocity samples for all kinds of sounds (not just piano sounds), organ engine with rotary effect
- total of 2 split/layered sounds instead of 4, few realtime effects controls and inflexible effect assignment, 64 user program locations instead of 400, no sostenuto or triple pedal included or optionally available, no custom sample loading, 3.5 lbs heavier

SV-2 73:
+ multi-velocity samples for all kinds of sounds (not just piano sounds), more usable organ sounds with rotary effect, tube
- total of 3 split/layered sounds instead of 4, splits/layers cannot be done from front panel (you need computer editor), 64 user program locations instead of 400, no triple pedal included or optionally available, no custom sample loading, 4 lbs heavier

CP73:
+ pitch and mod controls, multi-velocity samples for all kinds of sounds (not just piano sounds), more usable organ sounds with rotary effect, 4-zone MIDI controller functionality, 6 lbs lighter
- total of 3 split/layered sounds instead of 4, 160 user program locations instead of 400, no triple pedal included or optionally available, no custom sample loading

YC73:
same as CP73 except has a full drawbar organ engine, though only about 4 lbs lighter than the Nord (instead of 6)... this competes more with Electro 6HP than it does Nord Piano, the CP73 is the one that is closer to NP.

There are also differences in how many factory sounds they have, or can be optionally loaded in. Because of the different architectures, it is hard to compare exact numbers (and of course only Nord has the ever-expanding downloadable soud library). But...
...CP73 has the fewest total available basic sounds at 91 (fixed unless Yamaha releases more)
...SV2 has 72 but you can load in other factory sounds into as many as you'd like of the other 64 (user) program locations out of a library of about 400, with those additional sounds easily loaded or swapped in and out via the computer editor
...YC73 has 148 (fixed unless Yamaha releases more)
...I don't know about Grandstage... officially it has 500, but many of them are duplicates of the same sounds just with different effects, which is necessary because unlike the Nords, SV2, or CP73/YC73, the Grandstage does not simply allow you to assign any effect you want to any sound you want. So while most of these boards might have a single "Mark I Rhodes" sound that you can apply whatever effects and EQ you want to (saving each of your own preferred variations into user locations), Grandstage's "500 sounds" include about a dozen "Mark I Rhodes" in order to give you access to the same EP with different effects, etc. And since you can't create any variation that does not already exist, the dozen "Mark I Rhodes" in a Grandstage actually give you fewer "Mark I Rhodes" sounds than you could possibly create in any of those other boards.

Artis 7 is a whole different animal. Semi-weighted action instead of hammer action. Multi-function assignable sliders/buttons instead of dedicated controls for different functions. But if you want to compare it anyway...
+ pitch and mod controls, multi-velocity samples for all kinds of sounds (not just piano sounds), full drawbar organ engine, 4-zone MIDI controller functionality, 6.5 lbs lighter, and while it is still 4 split/layered sounds from the keys, I believe it is 16-part multimbral over MIDI.
- 256 user locations instead of 400 (128 Program, 128 combination), no triple pedal included or optionally available, no custom sample loading

I'm only going to comment on the CP73...the whole business of assigning a sample to another category to stack two pianos seems like a cryptic workaround. Disclosure: I have not taken the time to read the owner's manual so I do not know exactly what's involved.

From what I can tell from the manual, it's really simple. There's just a single setting to turn on "Advanced Mode" for whichever section(s) you want to be able to pick other-category sounds in. Once you do, instead of each sound coming up as a choice only in its own section, all the sounds come up as selectable choices in whatever sections you want them to come up in. The default is simpler... for example, by default, the (only) way to get to an Upright Piano is to move the knob to the panel label that says Upright Piano... but this other "Advanced" option lets you scroll to an Upright Piano even in the non-piano sections. This allows you to mix and match any three sounds instead of only having the (more Nord-like) option of picking one sound only from the sounds in one category and another sound only from the sounds in another category. It's as if you could hit a button on the Nord, and then all your sample library sounds would also be available to be scrolled to in the piano section, and all your piano library sounds were also available to be scrolled to in the sample library section.

To me, the CP73 would be the only other piano to consider from your list

I agree in that I see it as the toughest, most direct Nord Piano competitor. If you don't need triple pedal, custom sample loading, more than 160 user sound locations, or a 4th split/layered sound, the appeal of the CP73's lower price, lighter weight, pitch/mod controls, better-than-nothing organ sounds, multi-velocity orchestral sounds, and MIDI zoning (which can be used to help overcome the relatively small and unexpandable built in sound set via something like an iPhone/iPad) would really tempt me to go that way, assuming I was sufficiently happy with the piano sounds/action (which is a significant assumption).

can load any sound from the Nord libraries into my 5-year-old Stage 2EX.

Heck, you can load at least small versions of all the pianos except White Grand into boards as old as the original Stage (2005) and Electro 3 (2009)! The sample library (2.0) sounds go back to that same Electro, and the Nord Stage 2 (2011).

[anotherscott]

One could easily flip the question: which note would you choose as the lowest and highest, and why (other than being purely arbitrary)?

Right, and there are rationales for certain commmon uses.

You need 61 C-to-C to cover one manual of an organ. You have to go down a little further to A to cover the range of a Wurliter EP. You have to go down a little further to the F to cover the range of a clavinet (or, alternatively, add notes up top to go to an E). You have to go down another note to an E if you want to cover typical bass guitar parts doing LH bass, without cutting terribly into the number of remaining keys you have for your right hand sound. So a 69-key E-to-C covers a lot. Where to go next? If you want to cover the span of a 73-key Rhodes, you need to make use of the aforementioned clav alternative, and go up to a higher E on the top... though then you trade-off having the high not be a C which is very comfortable for organ playing, where it is common to swipe up to that note with abandon. So my own 73 preference would be C-to-C if it's an organ-action board, and E-to-E if it's a piano action board.

[greatbarrier86]

So, from my perspective, and since we're primarily discussing pianos, I think you have to immediately eliminate the YC and the Artis. The YC is organ-focused and much more expensive than the CP if you're just looking for the piano functionality, and the Artis is semi-weighted, which itself is enough to disqualify it for me. As an owner of a Grandstage, anotherscott is correct. The 500 sounds are really modified versions of the vanilla ones since the GS doesn't offer much tweaking functionality. (German Piano Dark, MK1 Amped...etc).

If i were making a decision today, I'd go in the following order

• Grandstage
• CP73
• SV2

The CP73 has a very good action but it's all Yamaha sounds (CFX, Bosendorfer...etc). I personally prefer a little more variety.
The SV2 is a great keyboard, but it's more EP focused and requires a laptop for it's advanced tweaking (if I'm correct). I don't love having to have a laptop nearby. If that's the goal, buy a Kawai VPC1 and use Keyscape/Ivory II for the same result IMO.

[anotherscott]

So, from my perspective, and since we're primarily discussing pianos, I think you have to immediately eliminate the YC and the Artis. The YC is organ-focused and much more expensive than the CP if you're just looking for the piano functionality, and the Artis is semi-weighted, which itself is enough to disqualify it for me.

Plus, the Artis piano would I think be pretty universally recognized as not being nearly as good as what's in any of the other boards we're talking about. For better piano action and piano sound, you'd look at different Kurzweils... since we're talking about 7x-key boards here, the Kurz to look at would be the Forte 7. Nice board, but a whole lot pricier than an Artis 7, and also pricier than the Nord Piano 5 (at least in the U.S.).

The SV2 is a great keyboard, but it's more EP focused and requires a laptop for it's advanced tweaking (if I'm correct). I don't love having to have a laptop nearby. If that's the goal, buy a Kawai VPC1 and use Keyscape/Ivory II for the same result IMO.

A lot of tweaking is available on the SV2's own front panel, including patch selection, effects assignments/manipulations, EQ. The main thing you need to use a PC/Mac for is to create splits and layers (which, once created, can be subsequently selected from the front panel, so you don't have to leave the laptop hooked up or bring it to a gig... which you would be unlikely to want to do with a 65 lb VPC1 regardless). You also use the PC/Mac to load different sounds into the board, but that's the same as you'd do on a Nord.

[pspan]

Nord 5 youtube performance at 10am eastern today

[greatbarrier86]

The SV2 is missing the Grandstage Piano, obviously, which I believe is a New York Steinway. Both it and the GS both have a German Steinway, but I very much enjoy the GS Piano, so for me, I would miss it with the SV2. That being said though, the number of EPS seem to be greater so there’s some consideration there based on what you’re looking for.

It doesn’t appear the SV2 has any sort of LED/LCD display. Am I wrong about that? There’s definitely a convenience to that.

[anotherscott]

It doesn’t appear the SV2 has any sort of LED/LCD display. Am I wrong about that? There’s definitely a convenience to that.

True. The lack of display may aid its retro vibe, but it does mean you need to use memorization or the retro accessory "paper" to keep track of exactly what sound is where.

[tbjazz]

Not complaining, a new Piano, hot on the heels of the Grand, great. But straw poll, who, of the posters in this thread (I see mostly S, W, L & E's) sees the P5 as their next board? Will such a small incremental update (let's be honest - who ever needed two simultaneous pianos more often than that one song they already found a workaround for?) tilt the market in any meaningful way? Happy to be told I misread the market (but I didn't (but I am)).

I'm someone looking at the P5 as my next keyboard. I'm trying to work out whether a 4 will do the job, or whether I should wait and jump straight in with a 5.
I'm currently playing a Stage Classic - so it's a BIG upgrade especially in terms of action - and I'm in the market for something that'll last a decade or so. I guess my biggest consideration is memory - whether the 1GB of the P4 will become an annoying limit in 4-5 years.
I'm a jazz pianist, needing only acoustic pianos and occasionally Rhodes or Wurly - but little more. I've hardly used the organ on my old Stage.
The price is the big difference, and the fact that I need the upgrade pretty soon and I don't know how long the wait for a 5 will be. I can get a 4 for £2000 - or even a display model in a local store for £1750 - so the anticipated £2500 for a P5 is a lot, but maybe long term worthwhile given the memory. Unsure.
But yes, the 5 may be turning my head.
Thoughts?

(New here - saxophone forums are my usual stomping ground!)

[tbjazz]

No insights here - I've got the same questions as you have. And I even haven't really played the NP4 yet - just tested it for 5 minutes or so when I was looking for something quite different.

As far as I understand, the action seems to be the same. Memory has increased, which indeed might be a point in the future. And the sound may probably be thickend much more than before: The NP5 has a) the layer detune which the NP4 didn't have as far as I can see; b) the opportunity to stack sounds one onto another - say AP + EP or the like whereas the NP4 only has 2 engines to blend. Which -- together with the "tru-vibrato" for the strings -- might well be another point for some styles.

So if ever you are looking for a piano sound straight away, both instruments might do it. If you love playing bold, fat sounds - the NP5 might have more features to enjoy.

My dealer (middle size company) said they'd have the NP5 in June/July - as I was already writing. No idea what that will mean for availability to end users. But I'm still convinced that there will be very little time if any where you can get both NP4 and NP5 as new (100% speculating, though).