Nord Christmas Gift ?

[Schorsch]

but most of the time each new one is greeted like a new blue dawn after a dark and wintry night. Some of us have been around long enough to remember the hosannas for the Italian, including video encomiums from Piano Man Chuck, who truly loved it - no-one is playing the Italian now, or even talking about it:

I wonder why Clavia should release any new grands at all, if after some time each new one is not being played or even talked about

[Gambold]

In Nord's defense, I will concur that the numbers of available Grands vs Uprights is pretty balanced, especially if you agree that only the models with XL samples count. There are seven each of these.

The problem is how current the newer samples are. While we don't know exactly WHY the sample sizes are getting so much larger, we are all making the assumption that the sampling technology is improving so the newer, bigger ones are better all around. Nord has released TWO uprights in the past 10 months. They haven't released a Grand for over three years.

[docbop]

In Nord's defense, I will concur that the numbers of available Grands vs Uprights is pretty balanced, especially if you agree that only the models with XL samples count. There are seven each of these.

The problem is how current the newer samples are. While we don't know exactly WHY the sample sizes are getting so much larger, we are all making the assumption that the sampling technology is improving so the newer, bigger ones are better all around. Nord has released TWO uprights in the past 10 months. They haven't released a Grand for over three years.

My guess on reason they're getting bigger is they are sampling more velocity layers so more detail depending on the players touch the sound.

I've been going thru the samples a lot lately trying to find what I like for an acoustic Jazz piano sound I like. From doing that I think a lot of the Nord samples are mic'd too close which has it use in more Rock/Pop and cutting thru live use, But I want a more a the classic Jazz club piano which I feel is a bit more open mic'd, but not to the point of a classical mic'ing or ambient room mic sound. Being an old recording engineer I know mic position is most important for the type of sound you want.

[tsss27]

SO - while I understand that after waiting so long for anything, anything is considered is awesome. But I'm calling foul on Clavia for not giving us a new Grand. Like I said, they've only released two in the past seven years. I consider sample updates as part of the high purchase price and I don't think that is an acceptable rate for Grand samples - which I maintain are the only ones that really matter.

Do you have some examples of piano tones you'd like which are not possible with the current library? I'm genuinely curious, because to me the Nord piano library is already the most diverse piano selection on the market outside of purchasing a computer and many software instruments. So, what exactly are you missing? There's been talk about re-recording some of the really old samples (C7, Steinway D) and re-releasing those, which is a nice proposition. But aside from that? Surely after a while they're going to run out of new pianos (whether grand or upright) to release that actually sound noticeably different to others in the existing collection... And then what? Ultimately this is why many of the current pianos don't get talked about much anymore like the Italian mentioned above, or Silver. There are just so many. Any of the XL ones would be highly praised if they were the flagship piano in another brand's board, but because there are so many choices with Nord many of these will go under the radar.

[Nico38]

Well, I redownloaded the Pearl piano, reinstalled it in my Nord Electro 6 and I no longer have the problem of parasitic noise. It may have come from a bug somewhere, I don't know where the problem came from but now it's not what! This new piano sounds so good

[Hlaalu]

I understand that after waiting so long for anything, anything is considered is awesome.

There may be some truth to the above, but as for the rest, I can't but end up being a bit perplexed at the level of certainty and even solemnity with which you make assessments about what is popular, what is "considered" best, used, not used, praised, forgotten...

I know we already talked about this, but I can't help thinking that lots and lots of users aren't simply as passionate as you seem to be about new (and old) piano samples. Placing this amount of importance over them by your side might be contributing to distort a bit your perception about the matter. I don't mean other people "don't care", but that they probably simply just play, switching sample as taste demands, and enjoying most of what they have loaded in their boards over time for different use cases.

Sometimes a sample flops out of the gate - like the Felt or the Velvet - but most of the time each new one is greeted like a new blue dawn after a dark and wintry night.

The Felt flopped out of the gate? This piano is a few months old. So it's basically new. The few fellow members that posted about it seemed to like it. Where do you get such conclusions from?

no-one is playing the Italian now, or even talking about it

I play it all the time, and not because I'm Italian, but I don't talk about it because honestly it doesn't cross my mind to do so. Again, my feeling is that many people are just very much satisfied with the current piano offering from Clavia and don't spend too much time overthinking about it in one sense or another.

I agree with tsss27:

to me the Nord piano library is already the most diverse piano selection on the market outside of purchasing a computer and many software instruments. So, what exactly are you missing?

[...]

Surely after a while they're going to run out of new pianos (whether grand or upright) to release that actually sound noticeably different to others in the existing collection... And then what? Ultimately this is why many of the current pianos don't get talked about much anymore like the Italian mentioned above, or Silver. There are just so many. Any of the XL ones would be highly praised if they were the flagship piano in another brand's board, but because there are so many choices with Nord many of these will go under the radar.

Exactly the bolded statement...

Gambold, on another thread you said we need updated hardware, updated boards. Again, what for? To have more storage to then accommodate for bigger samples? I see the same principle going on here for new piano samples and new boards: they might need them to stay in business (and out of integrity since they claim it's part of the purchase price), but do we?

[FZiegler]

Given you (@Gambold) are really playing an Electro 6D, I don't understand how you can say that the most important sound on your Nord is a grand. The Electro should be a specialist for organ and maybe EPs in my eyes. When me playing the NS3C with an external weighted keyboard isn't fully satisfactory, I won't end up blaming Nord for not delivering a new grand sample. The thing I do is hunting for the best fitting external weighted keyboard, and I already learned that attaching a Kawai VPC1 makes the existing samples sound ridiculously lively (compared to my gigging controller keyboard, an old Yamaha CP33). For the moment, that's the only way I use the word 'ridiculous' together with 'Nord'.

[maurus]

... and I already learned that attaching a Kawai VPC1 makes the existing [piano] samples sound ridiculously lively.

Same here

Too bad that you can't carry the VPC1 wherever you go :/ That's when the lightweight boards come in handy...

[harmonizer]

The message I take in from Gambold's opinions on AP library updates is that something has been missing there for the last few years. If that's his point, I agree. Here is my perception of the recent AP library updates:

For Uprights: The Pearl is the only new Upright sound that seems like something I really want, that was released during the last 6 years. The Baby (2017), Amber (2017), and Bambino (2016) all had something that made me discard them after trying them on my Electro 3. The Felt (2022) was not even interesting enough while listening via headphones from the Nord site (and generally, almost all piano sample seem great in this initial test). Until the Pearl came along, I was frustrated that the other new Upright sounds seemed to be targeting niche piano models which (from my perspective) were doomed to not be useful for me, no matter how well executed they might have been.

For Grands, the Royal Grand (2016) is really wonderful, and is has produced the most wonderful AP sound I have ever gotten from my Electro 3, so I consider it a game changer. But I never did figure out how to get it to "cut through" without stomping on other sounds in our 7 person covers band, where AP parts are usually accessory parts (no Billy Joel or Elton John songs). I can't test the White Grand (2019) in my Electro 3, but based on reports from others, it seems that was a game changer as well.

So for me, since 2016 there is one new Upright AP sound (Pearl) and one new Grand AP sound (White) which motivates me to buy a newer Electro or Stage. Most of the older AP sounds don't matter to me, because I am never going to buy and lug a second powered speaker and consume a second line in our live gig setup.

[analogika]

The message I take in from Gambold's opinions on AP library updates is that something has been missing there for the last few years. If that's his point, I agree. Here is my perception of the recent AP library updates:

For Uprights: The Pearl is the only new Upright sound that seems like something I really want, that was released during the last 6 years. The Baby (2017), Amber (2017), and Bambino (2016) all had something that made me discard them after trying them on my Electro 3. The Felt (2022) was not even interesting enough while listening via headphones from the Nord site (and generally, almost all piano sample seem great in this initial test). Until the Pearl came along, I was frustrated that the other new Upright sounds seemed to be targeting niche piano models which (from my perspective) were doomed to not be useful for me, no matter how well executed they might have been.

For Grands, the Royal Grand (2016) is really wonderful, and is has produced the most wonderful AP sound I have ever gotten from my Electro 3, so I consider it a game changer. But I never did figure out how to get it to "cut through" without stomping on other sounds in our 7 person covers band, where AP parts are usually accessory parts (no Billy Joel or Elton John songs).

This is where the piano EQ presets on the Stage 3/Electro 6 come in *really* handy.

1. Choose piano you like.
2. If it doesn't cut through the mix, hit "Bright".
3. Done.