Nord User Forum

The difference between monitors on the floor and on poles is what other people hear. If you're responsible for stage sound (minimal PA for example), then you'll want the poles. If the PA is doing all the heavy lifting, floor monitors are fine. The exception is when it's a wood stage floor or similar, and then you get acoustic coupling and weird bass resonances, even with the proper settings.

Hey guys,

I'm (with some other guys from various bands) in the process to setup a new one, and we're looking for a decent PA for both rehearsal rooms as well as some gigs, typically in Pubs with around 100 to 250 people. Band is 5 people as per now: drums (likely Roland e-drum kit since our drummer does not like hauling the acoustic tuff around), guitar, bass, keys and singer.

We are currently looking at QSC K10.2 or K12.2 plus subs. I have some questions which I would like tot get your opinions for:

1) Would you prefer K10.2 or K12.2 for the described purposes, and why?

2) Which sub would you choose and why: KS112, KS212C or KS118? We need a good compromise of punch in the low frequency range versus size and weight

3) Do you think one sub placed in the center betwee the two tops will do it, or do you think that 2 subs are needed?

Thx and regards!

1. I think a K10.2 would be better when using a sub. My last band used the K12.2 and it was harder to get a crisp vocal sound out of the 12.
2. If the specs are accurate, the 112 would be the lightest, and goes down to 38Hz.
3. You could try one and see if it is sufficient. For venues you describe, it just might be.

-dj

Schorsch wrote:Hey guys,

We are currently looking at QSC K10.2 or K12.2 plus subs. I have some questions which I would like tot get your opinions for:

1) Would you prefer K10.2 or K12.2 for the described purposes, and why?

2) Which sub would you choose and why: KS112, KS212C or KS118? We need a good compromise of punch in the low frequency range versus size and weight

3) Do you think one sub placed in the center betwee the two tops will do it, or do you think that 2 subs are needed?

Thx and regards!

So, once you use them with a sub you are only using them above the crossover point (I think it defaults to 100 hz on most QSC subs) so the only practical difference is the coverage pattern. the K10.2 have a 90 degree coverage, so they will spread a bit wider and sound a bit less "throaty" then the K12.2, which I believe is what DJKeys noticed in his rig.

Unless you are doing a lot of R&B the KS212C would be my choice. It doesn't go as low, but it is punchier and the Cardiod function would keep some of that low freq off the stage where it is likely to just create feedback. If you need some serious boom I would go with a pair of KW181.

You might be able to get away with one sub but it will depend on how loud you need to get. As you get closer to max, two K10 or K12 will be 3 db louder than the sub. If you are close to max, than the sub will quit before the tops do making it sound wimpy. If you are at reasonable levels you should be fine.

NEVER put a sub in the middle of a room. The geometry of a room will cause a frequency to predictably cancel, causing you to have a hole in your frequency response if you center it. In a room that was 30 feet wide this would be at roughly 37 hz (speed of sound in feet 1130/2 x distance) with additional cancel an octave above that at 74 hz and a smaller trough at 100hz and 148hz (numbers are rounded a bit).

I would still use a sub-pole and put the sub under one of the tops and put the other K on a stand. Low freq is not significantly directional so you won't feel the shift unless you cross the sub over way too high. You can get a bit of timing smear in the corner of the room farthest from the sub (since you will hear the other top at a louder level) but it should still be less objectionable than having the sub in the middle of the room.

Sorry...probably too much info...but we need some more info on the style of music you are performing and how loud you are going to need to get to be able to give good info. A pair of Ks and a single sub SHOULD be enough in most situations...but you may crave a bit more low end.

Thanks a lot Jeff, very helpful hints!

We would play Rock and Pop cover songs from the 70s to the 90s, playlist not yet defined ... should be as loud as necessary for a pub environment but not blowing the people away through the windows



Another question: what would be the equivalent product from RCF compared to the QSC K2.10 and KS112/KS212C?

I'm going to take this in a different direction, if you don't mind?

If we're comparing the various QSC K.2 models the K8.2 gets my nod as it wins in clarity, dispersion and schlep factor. I don't like the K10.2s, and I dislike the K12.2s even more. I prize clarity above all. It doesn't need to be loud to be good.

That being said, I have abandoned my entire inventory of FOH gear (list available upon request) in favor of a pair of RCF EVOX J8s. Best gear I ever bought for PA work. For the 150-200 audience gig -- indoor or out -- they win. The mini line array part delivers a crystal audio experience, and the 12 inch subs do some justice as long as you're not playing a dance club. Keys and vocals sound amazing.

I like them, the band members like them, the sound people really like them. Other local bands are starting to buy them after they've heard them at one of my gigs. Super bang for the buck.

You can get them at a decent discount by calling around.

I'm not at the point yet of selling my fleet of QSC and RCF gear, but I'm getting close. For example, I have an 18" RCF sub that never gets any use these days. Sad. That being said, the QSCs make great floor monitors when needed. And then there's this pair of exotic Fulcrum Acoustic FAS-12acs that I need to figure out what to do with.

Best of luck!

@cphollis for me the K8 gets a little too wide. I like the balance of the K10 better but the K12 is a bit honky for my taste.

I haven't heard the EVOX J8s but I have had mixed luck with mini-arrays (I loathe the Bose). Just to confirm, you are running the whole band through them?

cphollis wrote:I'm going to take this in a different direction, if you don't mind?

That being said, I have abandoned my entire inventory of FOH gear (list available upon request) in favor of a pair of RCF EVOX J8s. Best gear I ever bought for PA work. For the 150-200 audience gig -- indoor or out -- they win. The mini line array part delivers a crystal audio experience, and the 12 inch subs do some justice as long as you're not playing a dance club. Keys and vocals sound amazing.

Thank you! How do the EVOX J8 compare to the EVOX 8 V2, apart from the 8V2 being >50% more expensive?

Hi

I run a pair of K8.2 in combination with a KS112. For my use its a perfect setup.
Mainly small gigs, and often just keys, git and bass + vocals (no drums).
The K8.2 are very crisp, and I find them easy to produce comfortably sound.
Also its a quite light-weight setup so its no problem handling it alone if needed.
I´ve also tried the RCF EVOX J8, and I find the QSC better.

I'm using the RCF EVOX J8s as FOH PA. The only real difference between the J8s and 8s is the cabinet construction: plastic vs. birch. I'm good with plastic .

I too am familiar with the Bose L1 series -- these are much different in their approach. The mini line array head spreads wide (120 degrees) while constraining vertical (20 degrees or so), and the bass subs do just fine for most material. The packaging is clever, and they're easy to transport as well.