Does B3 organ simulation differ in Electro 5D vs. Stage 2EX?

[maxpiano]

Now NS2EX comes with the same C2D engine, the tweaked 3rd generation, but with ONLY ONE, not both, of the 122 models. This tends to confirm that NS2 platform can't handle both due to insufficient space. The NE5 also comes with the same C2D engine, but with BOTH of the 122s.

I am sorry Pablo, but are you sure about the NS2 EX? Nowhere in the Nord website nor in the comparison chart it is mentioned that the Organ section of the EX is any different from the NS2 Classic http://www.nordkeyboards.com/products/n ... ison-chart

[bassoon36]

The 5D rotary effect is very good. It is a close comparable second to my original model Ventilator. For the Leslie amp simulation, all that's really missing is the smell of burnt dust bunnies being flung off the drum when the brake is released. For fast drawbar changes, I have actually used all 3 live patches each with 2 presets. You can setup 6 drawbar settings and never save a program. That was just for fun... I did end up saving those to setlist so I could return my live settings to my own personal "default." It goes like this:

program 1 = silver grand w/strings on volume pedal - sometime w/delay, sometimes not, this instrument has such amazing quick change effects....
live 1 = driven B2 w/chunky preset1 and solo preset2, usually solos demand live drawbar changes (I try to avoid being that guy that ends up with all stops out at the end of every solo but it's soooo hard!)
live 2 = rhodes, pan/chorus/twin (touch of drive)
live 3 = clav, pedal wah, usually low freq flange, compressed

Use the gain to level in to the band so you don't end up drowning or flaming when you come in on a patch change. Nord has given me an instrument that provides a truckload of instrumentation that substantially reduces the number of trips between the van and the stage. I'm a horn player too so I'm already close to having the same load-in and stage space needs as the drummer.

Will the stage do more, yes. The Electro does exactly what it's mission has been all along. Faithful reproduction of a metric ton of vintage equipment that weighs less than a tenor sax.
On a semi-related note, I was unsure that the SW keybed would give me the kind of piano nuance that I get from my beloved old upright. The time it took for me to adapt was minutes. Honest. Only minutes. Maybe I'm just not a very serious pianist... but it worked for me.

[ericL]

I can't comment on the NS2EX as I have not yet played one, but it seems like it is basically a NS2 with expanded memory and a new color scheme. I did not pick up on any changes/improvements to the organ model, but maybe they are not well documented.

In any event, I have the NS2 and NE5. The NE5's organ is definitely a very nice step above the NS2. I believe this is primarily due to the Leslie sim on the NE5. With my NS2, I've always used a Neo Vent for Leslie sim and have loved that sound. On the NE5, I use the "close" 122 model and it is darn close to sounding like a Vent and I don't need to use the Vent with the NE5. I like playing organ on the NE5 much more than the NS2, though there is still something about the Vent sim that is just a touch more authentic than the NE5's sim.

I would be interested to know if the NS2EX can hang against the NE5's organ. I suspect we'll need to wait for the NS3 to really see some competition.

[pablomastodon]

The rotary effect on the 5d is different to the Stage 2s. Electro 4 and 5 use an updated rotary model which to my ear sounds leagues better than that of the Stage 2's. I know this opinion is shared by others, but then there are some who can't really tell a difference!

Yes, the rotary on NE4 and NE5 is improved over the rotary on NS2. That's what I said.

Pablo

[pablomastodon]

[quote="maxpiano"I am sorry Pablo, but are you sure about the NS2 EX? Nowhere in the Nord website nor in the comparison chart it is mentioned that the Organ section of the EX is any different from the NS2 Classic http://www.nordkeyboards.com/products/n ... ison-chart[/quote]

Please, let's not start calling the NS2 "classic." Classic is reserved for the original Stage.

The tweaks to organ key click are trivial, but they do exist on the NS2EX and not on the NS2. Again, the chief difference is rotary, which is greatly improved

Pablo

[maxpiano]

I am sorry Pablo, but are you sure about the NS2 EX? Nowhere in the Nord website nor in the comparison chart it is mentioned that the Organ section of the EX is any different from the NS2 Classic http://www.nordkeyboards.com/products/n ... ison-chart

Please, let's not start calling the NS2 "classic." Classic is reserved for the original Stage.

The tweaks to organ key click are trivial, but they do exist on the NS2EX and not on the NS2. Again, the chief difference is rotary, which is greatly improved

Pablo

OK, OK... I won't use the "Classic" any more for the original NS2 but still what you say is contrast with what is written in the official Nord website and documents: do you know something that they haven't written there (and why shouldn't have they advertised these improvements?)?

[Jon-Lazy]

Last Question,

hopefully very last question, Pablo: Do I understand this in the right manner - N2EX hast the same "greatly improved" rotary as NE4 and NE 5?

Greets Uli

[pablomastodon]

Hi Max,

What I said does not contradict what the Nord website says, nor vice versa. The BIG changes on NS2EX are additional memory and swapping out the rotary speaker emulation. Both instruments have what is essentially the same 3rd generation Nord tonewheel organ. The C2D added some minor tweaks to key clicks, these were shortly thereafter ported to the C2, but not NS2. Now the new NS2EX does have these tweaks. They are trivial. In my view they are not even really worth mentioning, but in order to be technically accurate, they were mentioned once upon a time and now to continue to be consistent I continue to mention them. Over and over again. Ad infinitum. Ad nauseum.

You ask "why shouldn't they have advertised these improvements?" I don't know. Perhaps because they are not deemed sufficiently significant to be mentioned. Perhaps they are not viewed as improvements at all, just a minor alteration. Perhaps someone felt that mentioning this trivia would distract attention from the true substantive changes. Truly it isn't worth mentioning, but I spent the better part of 20 years working in a law environment earlier in my employed life and when I write things I like to be technically accurate down to minute details. Perhaps the marketing fellow forgot. Perhaps adding another line would have produced a document which was visually out of balance and less pleasing to the eye. Marketing materials are marketing materials and for the most part I do not spend time reading them because I am not directly involved in marketing; I handle tech support. Marketing is broad stroke stuff and getting bogged down in trivial details detracts from the main message. (aside: this general principle is aptly illustrated by presidential election politricks in the US, an ongoing process right now)

My info in this regard did not come from Nord marketing personnel (who are very nice, very capable and hardworking people -- I do not intend any insult to them by anything I say here). My "guru" and the source of my info was employed at the intersection between Nord hardware, software, design, marketing, worldwide tech support for about 7 years already when I started in my position 5-1/2+ years ago. I had and have implicit faith in everything he ever told me. He knows what he's talking about and this is what he told me. If only those key click tweaks had either 1) never occurred, or 2) never been mentioned aloud in public, this continuing harangue would not exist.

Max, I'm really not trying to "bust your chops" here. You are a valued and respected member of this forum and many is the time when I have seen good and meaningful advice posted by you. Everyone has their little "pet peeves" and one of mine is when this sort of minutiae replaces focus on the primary consideration of MAKING MUSIC. On the other hand, it is completely understandable that someone contemplating a new purchase (with a considerable price tag) will want to delve into every detail there is. If you are thinking about upgrading from NS2 to NS2EX, then this may be very important to you. If that is the case, do not waste any further time and energy on organ section differences. They should have no part in your decision because they are trivial, virtually nonexistent. Your decision should be based on how much value you place on the additional memory and the replacement of the rotary speaker and nothing else.

The NS2EX has the same 3rd generation tonewheel model as current C2D, C2, NE4 and NE5 with regard to the great and swell manuals. So does the NS2 -- minus the key click tweaks first introduced with release of the C2D.


Uli,

Nord models C2D, C2, NE4, and NE5 have two versions of the 122, "regular" and close-mic'd. The NS2EX has a single 122, not both.

Bless,

Pablo

[maxpiano]

Hi Pablo,

I don't mean to waste your, mine and forumers time too much on this, it is more a curiosity; so to put it very simple: if the NS2 EX brings the C2D enhancements I would have expected to see them at leas in the comparison chart, where instead both NS2 and NS2 EX are indicated as 3rd generation Organ engine (please take a look at that chart). Those enhancements were minor also between C2 and C2D but in that case they were explicitly mentioned in the chart and web text.

However, I recognize it may just be a matter of "not so effective communication" from Nord and I hope I can test an EX soon (though I have no intention to upgrade my NS2 SW73 at the moment) to satisfy my curiosity

[Gospelkeys]

Now NS2EX comes with the same C2D engine, the tweaked 3rd generation, but with ONLY ONE, not both, of the 122 models. This tends to confirm that NS2 platform can't handle both due to insufficient space. The NE5 also comes with the same C2D engine, but with BOTH of the 122s.

Hi Pablo

I hope you don't mind if I ask for clarification because this topic is important to me.

I was mistakenly under the impression that the B3 and leslie sim in the NS2 EX was the same as the NS2.

I understand you stated that the B3 engine in the NS2 EX is now the C2D version ( minor but nice improvements over the C2 ). For the leslie sim. The Electro 5D has 2 versions - 122 and 122 close. Are you saying that the NS2 EX has an updated leslie sim but only one of those? I am asking because I love the leslie sim in the Electro 5D ( both versions ) but I don't care for the one in the NS2. Might make a difference on a decision to upgrade.

Edit - the Nord site shows the organ engine as still generation 2 ( C2 )???? I'm confused....

Thanks