NL2 vs. NL2X

Everything about the Nord Lead synthesizers; features, specifications, how to operate, and questions about technical issues.
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Re: NL2 vs. NL2X

Post by ricard »

Marlowes wrote: Waiting for more nerdy stuff. Keep her as long as you like. Now I can spend more time with the NS2.
Don't say that ... the synth stand in your picture above might be empty for a long time ... :D

I really like the resulting keyboard action in the NL2X compared to my NL2, even though I'm more and more convinced it is the software that differs, so swapping in a 2X keybed in my 2 wouldn't make a difference.

The only downside of the 2X really is that I like the graphics better than on the 2, and also they've removed 'Pelles mode', not that I've ever used it other than for just trying it out.

EDIT: After some discussion on another forum it seems that at least as far as the keybed goes, they are actually identical in the 2X and 2 (same Fatar type). Also, there's not supposed to be any change in the software (although owing to the fact that the 2X has more memories, no PCMCIA card slot etc, there must be some differences). Then it dawned on me that my NL2 is placed rather high up whereas I've been putting the 2 on a fairly low table when playing. I've never that different keyboard heights might affect perceived velocity response; if the keyboard is way to high or low it makes it awkward to play of course. Having swapped the 2X and the 2 around here, I'm getting more into thinking that the response is rather similar in fact. The 2X feels stiffer, but it could simply be that it is less worn?

Interesting at any rate. You always tend to learn something you didn't expect to, which of course is part of the point of investigating something in the first place...
Last edited by ricard on 04 Sep 2014, 23:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NL2 vs. NL2X

Post by ricard »

Three more files, this time I've used the same sound as in examples 3, 4 and 5 above, but this time have a (gradually) massive back track, the idea being to see if the any of the two fares any better when competing for space in the sound.

The reason for this test is as follows: Once I was playing in a band that used the Yamaha DX-7 a lot. We then for various reasons got the chance to use a DX-7-II for a while. Initially we were amazed at the fact that all our DX-7 patches sounded identical on the DX-7-II. However, when trying to put the sounds in a mix, we were left with the impression that the original DX-7 sound cut through better in a mix, the DX-7-II versions tended to disappear. So it seems that there can be properties in the sound that are not immediately audible but that show up in a mix. One of the differences between these machines is similar to the difference between the NL2 and NL2X, namely the amount of bits in the D/A converter.

For these files I've not played the same riff alternately on the two different machines with pauses between, instead each file is a complete song, with the NL playing the same riff with different amounts of backing. Same question, which files are the NL2 and which are the NL2X ? Again, personally I can hear no difference.
Attachments
8.mp3
(7.48 MiB) Downloaded 475 times
9.mp3
(7.44 MiB) Downloaded 462 times
10.mp3
(7.52 MiB) Downloaded 461 times
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Re: NL2 vs. NL2X

Post by Marlowes »

Hej!

Really impressing - my NL2X have never sounded so good. And you are totally right: it seems impossible to tell the difference by ear.
And you don't happen to have a spectrum analyzer in your studio or can steal one from your employer?

By the way, I guess you are using a DAW. Does it happen to be Logic Pro X?
Your "songs" are very, very good!

You've done a great job, Ricard! Thanks for letting me on board, so to say. :thumbup:

/Amicalement
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NE3HP, NP88, NS2, DPP1, NL2X, NL2X, NLA1, NL4, NE5D, NW2 (Collect Them All?), some classic Rolands, Arturias, a Waldorf, a Kurz, a WONOK3, a pile of guitars, a P-bass, loopers, amps and computers ...
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Re: NL2 vs. NL2X

Post by ricard »

Quite frankly, if there's no difference to be heard by ear, I don't think a spectrum analyzer will show anything. If there was an audible difference (or indeed something that was more of a feeling, that you couldn't put your finger on), a spectrum analyzer or oscilloscope could point to what the exact technical difference was. I might try and look at some basic waveshapes with an oscilloscope to see if there's any difference though, mostly because I've not done any visual analysis at all.

I didn't use a DAW for the above demo tunes. Everything was done in real time using the sequencer in an E-MU XL-7, which also provided some of the sounds, together with a Waldorf Blofeld and Roland ep-77 electric piano (ok, so next part of the guessing game, what apart from the Nord Lead plays what ...? :) )

BTW, there's a quirk going on with the Nord Lead in song #10 above. Anyone figure it out?

(EDIT: Also note my updated comment on the keybed response above).
Last edited by ricard on 04 Sep 2014, 23:01, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: NL2 vs. NL2X

Post by Marlowes »

Hej Ricard!

No ... I have played and played these songs over and over again and I'm totally confused but totally impressed of your work. Can we start a band together? 8-)

Please, reveal the answers to your questions above for us! And also post the pictures from the test at your studio/lab. Please!

Thanks for finally giving back my dear old NL2X. Now I can continue exploring the Arturia Beatstep, wich feels very promising.
I spend most of my days right now with a mouse at a computer so it feels really good to relax messing around with lots of knobs and pads. :D
The NL2X is back!
The NL2X is back!
2014-09-20 14.13.20.jpg (210.95 KiB) Viewed 2734 times
/Amicalement
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I'm a gearslut! :oops:
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Re: NL2 vs. NL2X

Post by Nordlicht »

Hej Michael,

but WHERE is actually your 2X ??? The photo shows an A1, doesn't it?
I am very concerned and confused :crazy:

Hälsningar :lol:
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Re: NL2 vs. NL2X

Post by pablomastodon »

Inquiring minds want to know....

Pablo
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Re: NL2 vs. NL2X

Post by Marlowes »

Hej!

Don't really know how to arrange all the stuff in my small studio now ... this feels akward ... :?
And, Ricard; where are the answers to your "quiz" and the pictures from your studio/lab?
The NL2X is back!
The NL2X is back!
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Last edited by Marlowes on 22 Sep 2014, 17:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NL2 vs. NL2X

Post by Nordlicht »

Congrats! A very nice duet...

I wish you a lot of fun! :keyboard2:
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Re: NL2 vs. NL2X

Post by ricard »

Sorry for the late response, been busy with other projects... so... by popular demand (?), here are the answers to the NL2X-NL2 quiz:

First, the repeated riffs files:

1.mp3: 2X 2 2 2X 2X
2.mp3: 2X 2X 2 2X 2
3.mp3: 2 2X 2X 2X 2
4.mp3: 2X 2X 2 2X 2X
5.mp3: 2X 2 2 2X 2
6.mp3: 2 2X 2X 2 2
7.mp3: 2 2X 2 2X 2X

Then using the same machine throughout, with backing provided by an E-MU XL-7, a Waldorf Blofeld and a Roland ep-77:

8.mp3: NL2X
9.mp3: NL2
10.mp3: NL2X and NL2, alternating, usually half way through each 8-bar repeat. (This was the trick one, as contrary to my description, I used both machines on this one).

Ok, not sure how much pictures will bring to the table, here the 2X is a guest on the dining table with my living room corner studio in the background, with the NL2 at top:
Nordlead 2, Roland S-10 and Roland ep-77 in background, the 2X taking center stage in the foreground.
Nordlead 2, Roland S-10 and Roland ep-77 in background, the 2X taking center stage in the foreground.
NL2-2X-RW.jpg (367.22 KiB) Viewed 2630 times
An interesting thing is that although the keybeds are (reportedly) the same in both the 2 and the 2X, they feel rather different. Now, since I've put 10g weights in the keys in my NL2 to even out the action, it's not surprising, but the odd thing is that the sensation is that the keys on the NL2X feel shorter than the ones on the NL2. I wasn't expecting that. Both my friend and myself had the same sensation. The effect was so convincing that we even resorted to measuring the length of the keys just to convince us there was no difference.
Measuring key length...
Measuring key length...
NL2-keylen.jpg (108.21 KiB) Viewed 2630 times
The question is whether the difference in feeling can be attributed solely to the weights, or if the age of the machines make a difference - the keybed on my NL2 is more worn than Marlowes' NL2X.

As noted above, I did some A-B-testing on my own, and also at a friend's studio, who works among other things works professionally as a producer and doing mastering, and consequently has better ears than I do. He couldn't hear any difference between the machines either.

So the end result of this shootout is that I personally can't hear any difference in sound between my NL2 and NL2X. What I did learn though was that it is very easy to fool oneself - at one point I'd set the volumes slightly different, with the NL2X louder, and I quickly got the sensation that it sounded much better, until I took a couple of single notes and balanced out the volumes. The different sensations in keyboard response is another issue along a similar track.

I've heard of others who have said that they found the NL2X to sound 'cold' with the NL2 being 'warmer' and the original NL being warmer still. There might be some truth in this as I understand there are a couple of adjustments to be made in the DAC circuitry of the NL2 and NL, which could inadvertently be set 'off'. That would at the very least add a bit of distortion to the sound which might cause some machines to appear 'warmer' than others. Since I don't have the service manual for my NL2, I didn't want to mess around with an adjustment which would be tricky to get back to its original position. My NL2 has been gigged very little so it would make sense that the adjustments made at the factory still are reasonably within the original specs.

BTW, the Beatstep looks really nice on the empty panel space on the NL A1. I've been considering a Beatstep too, not for the Nord, but instead for my Blofeld which is not as well endowed as the Nords in the knob department. The sequencing functionality would then be more of a bonus for me than the main selling point.
Last edited by ricard on 23 Sep 2014, 00:47, edited 2 times in total.
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