Nord Piano sounds vs real piano recordings

[patrickdafunk]

A live acoustic piano in the room cannot be matched by a sound coming out of two speakers. To compare, listen to a recorded piano and the Nord over the same pair of headphones. I am sure I could not make a recording of a live piano that sounded as good as the XL Nord pianos.

so if I understand correctly you state a solo piano piece recorded from a Nord Piano Library XL/Large sounds almost TOO good to be true?

Maybe the acoustics and non 'direct' recording of a live piano breathes / lives more? And this wouldn't be the case with a Nord Stage XL/Large direct recording..

But I can't afford a grand piano sadly, I would record on it if I had the option!

[patrickdafunk]

My guess is that as good as they are, Nord pianos (or any other vendor for that matter) could never match a well-recorded real grand if you'd A/B compare them. Alone the dynamics of the real thing is so much bigger. As an example, this fun piece just wouldn't be the same on any canned piano:

(One of my favourites btw, it's written to honour the memory of Jaco Pastorius and the name of the piece is so aptly "Can't Get Up". A very nice album as a whole imho, do check it out if you're into this style of piano playing.)

Great album! Thanks for reference. The sound of these recordings doesn't come close to a XL/Large library. You can tell from the first notes that are played. It's the room, acoustics, imperfections maybe, type of microphones, recording methods etc. etc. all these things add up to create a more intimate recording. I love it where you can almost feel you are in the same room with these recordings, it's really intimate. I have the same feeling with Chilly Gonzales - Solo Piano I & II.

And yes, I agree a nord piano recording doesn't come close to this sound.

But maybe you can mimic some stuff, like setting up a 'ambience microphone' in the room and recording the space when recording directly on a nord stage. And mixing these too with each other. But maybe I'm taking this too far now and should just start saving for a Grand + microphones and record a solo piano in 20 years.

[patrickdafunk]

But maybe you can mimic some stuff, like setting up a 'ambience microphone' in the room and recording the space when recording directly on a nord stage. And mixing these too with each other. But maybe I'm taking this too far now and should just start saving for a Grand + microphones and record a solo piano in 20 years.

Yeah, I think there are two main things contributing to the detail of a real grand, and these are quite hard to reproduce in a sampled instrument:

1. A real grand responds to velocity across the whole velocity range, whereas in a sampled piano the behaviour is "quantised" to a few velocity layers (was it now 4 in case of Nord?). There's probably cross-fading between the layers, but still the response is not what it is in a real thing. I feel the difference is most prominent in softest and loudest playing, mid-range not so much.

2. A sampled instrument is sampled note-by-note. Yes, there are string resonance samples in Nord, but I don't think they capture at all how the instrument itself resonates, vibrates and responds to your chords, which themselves vary infinitely in e.g. how loud the individual notes are played, what other notes you might have lingering under your sustain pedal etc. You get only so far by sampling, to really capture an instrument you would have to model it, but I think we are still quite far from modelling a grand piano in detail.

That said, I still think it is mostly solo jazz or classical piano where you hear the difference in practise. In pop/rock where you have a band or even just a singer with a piano I really can't and don't pay attention to if the piano is real or not, but in an album like the Iiro Rantala album I linked it is oh so clear that a real grand is so much more real and alive.

[patrickdafunk]

Hi Juhana, thanks for your insights. Really interesting!

What about the Roland V-Piano or other Stage pianos? Any insights on technology behind these modeled grands?

Personally I think the Nord's piano is amazing, but just not quite there yet when we are talking about solo, jazz, classical piano recordings. I agree It's perfect to use for pop productions or other productions where there is a lot going on.

[jacowannabe]

awesome, great replies. I have tried recording my upright piano but I didn't get very good results, mainly because of the noisy pedal noise (my upright is pretty old). At first I thought this could add to the liveliness of the recording, but it's frankly just very irritating and not nice to hear in a solo piano recording.

Why not just fix the noisy pedal then?

[patrickdafunk]

awesome, great replies. I have tried recording my upright piano but I didn't get very good results, mainly because of the noisy pedal noise (my upright is pretty old). At first I thought this could add to the liveliness of the recording, but it's frankly just very irritating and not nice to hear in a solo piano recording.

Why not just fix the noisy pedal then?

Good one.. any usefull tips? I am really not the handy man sadly!

[Cornopean]

awesome, great replies. I have tried recording my upright piano but I didn't get very good results, mainly because of the noisy pedal noise (my upright is pretty old). At first I thought this could add to the liveliness of the recording, but it's frankly just very irritating and not nice to hear in a solo piano recording.

Why not just fix the noisy pedal then?

Good one.. any usefull tips? I am really not the handy man sadly!

If it squeaks, oil it. You may need to disassemble bits. If it's more of a thump, that's the sound of it working. Although if the thump comes from the pedal bottoming out, you could add a felt pad to dampen this noise.

[patrickdafunk]

I think most people will never spot the difference. But as juhana said, if you truly mic a grand with expert choices. Then the trained ear will be able to tell.

Still, getting a great grand, the knowledge about micking (or a person that know how to) and the time to do all that means that such a recording will be much more expensive than recording the nord you already have and most people will never thing that is digital. That is why people like Jordan Rudess have previously used Ivory to record (up until he actually got a Steinway).

Saludos,
Gustavo

[patrickdafunk]

I will probably do both and compare the two. I have recorded a piece on the Nord stage and when I get some mics + oil my upright piano I will re-record it and compare. Will post them if there is any interest.