New Pianos

[stiiiiiiive]

I get your point. However, having newer sounds is not the same as having better sounds. I was talking about the former and I may have missed that previous posters meant the later.

Now this told me that someone got a Rhodes piano, put it in a test room, rigged up a jig to fire the keys at different parameters and then put all the information into a file which they then loaded into the Nord Keyboard.

I gather that this isn't actually the case and the plain english I interpreted is actually wrong, they used it as a sort of guide for their sound modelling. (Hence you get sounds below bottom A/pitch bent, etc). This was a total surprise. If you ask me, UK trading standards would have something to say about them misleading the customer (you aren't allowed to hide important things in small print, it's a part of contract law)

Really? The EPs are modelled, not sample-based ?
Sample based instruments can be pitch-bent or even transposed out of the original range BTW.

[jazzystu]

I remember having the "well, they're crap" comment about the rhodes "samples" and I was corrected by someone who knew better. It's why the thing is so sterile.

No matter how hard you try, every Rhodes has a couple of imperfections sound wise. A slightly more bell-ie note, one which clacks a bit, a quieter pickup....I gather this has been ironed out by Nord's process.

After 5 or so Rhodes, I have yet (after rebuilding them in meticulous detail) got one to sound as "right" as any of the Nord ones. I've also fixed many of them and argue that I'd be able to get one as right as anyone else, including nord man.

[JiminWales]

I'm pretty sure they're multi layer sampled - you can hear the layers crossfade at different velocities.

For some reason, this process does not work well for EP or Clav - I think because sound A + sound C does not make sound B as the timbre changes radically versus velocity on these instruments. It does work well for acoustic piano.

I think GSi (of VB3 fame) made a modelled Rhodes EP as a VST plug-in (Mr Ray?), also a modelled D6 Clav.
http://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=products

[Ecaroh]

For those who don't understand my frustration with Clavia and especially about e-piano library:

It was few (maybe 5) years ago when Clavia was a winner in vintage keyboard sounds. They had very nicely sampled Rhodes (etc.) which had character, "bark", nice FX etc. which made them very special. Well, mostly we are still playing these same sound sets. (Most improvement has been made on acoustic pianos). I think I would be very happy with these EPs still nowadays if world hasn't changed in these 5 years. But in fact it has.

Someone with better knowledge can tell us how much sample memory has increased since those days. NS2 can run much more detailed sample sets than Nord Electro did years ago. So why the h*** they cannot provide us samples which meet the modern standards and specs their own instruments. I am not saying that all of us would need XL-sized Rhodes but I'd still like to have that option. And yes, "imperfection" is a wanted feature of some vintage e-piano sample sets. On the other hand, someone of us would like to have also a more stable, clear, very even Rhodes. More options and detailed sounds.

So, few years ago Clavia was a clear winner. Nowadays I am not sure anymore. Also, as said earlier, many of us (longtime Clavia users, myself included) have put our money to their products with (an old) idea of them to wait for updates and sounds. This has been their one major marketing strategy. You will get updates and sounds frequently. One thing is sure: they have made this much more slower, now you have to wait years (or more) to get anything except these soviet synth sounds.

P

P.S. To me these soviet synth sounds are just non-sense. I never bought my NS2 with an idea of getting new sampled synth sounds from them. If I want to have one, I will sample my own. As many of you have pointed out, I'd like to have new pianos and EPs but I cannot import any sounds to this piano library.

P.S.S, There are also many other things which show us that Clavia isn't listening its customers wishes. For example, many of us have now years asked for more options for keyboard velocity dynamics. And for nothing. We still have just these few options to make touch lighter. So frustrating indeed, cause this cannot be that difficult to implement. They just don't care.

[stiiiiiiive]

FIt was few (maybe 5) years ago when Clavia was a winner in vintage keyboard sounds. They had very nicely sampled Rhodes (etc.) which had character, "bark", nice FX etc. which made them very special. Well, mostly we are still playing these same sound sets. (Most improvement has been made on acoustic pianos). I think I would be very happy with these EPs still nowadays if world hasn't changed in these 5 years. But in fact it has.

Someone with better knowledge can tell us how much sample memory has increased since those days. NS2 can run much more detailed sample sets than Nord Electro did years ago. So why the h*** they cannot provide us samples which meet the modern standards and specs their own instruments.

Ok, I definitely understand that. It seems fair to me now.
Still, what I feel (not what I understand), is that, indepedently of theavailable technologies, the sounds I use in my Clavia are just as good as 5 years ago.

You know what? I'm french, people here are often complaining. I think I developed kind of a counter-complaining syndrome
I think I'm upset when people are angry against the guys that provided me such cool instruments, really. But definitely, I would be glad to have "better" EPs (not newer, better).

I think GSi (of VB3 fame) made a modelled Rhodes EP as a VST plug-in (Mr Ray?), also a modelled D6 Clav.
http://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=products

Pianoteq is another modelling software, pretty good IIRC.

[Frantz]

You know what? I'm french, people here are often complaining. I think I developed kind of a counter-complaining syndrome
I think I'm upset when people are angry against the guys that provided me such cool instruments, really. But definitely, I would be glad to have "better" EPs (not newer, better).

I agree with you and

[Mr_-G-]

So, I am curious, which hardware instrument currently provides "the" Rhodes sound that we should but do not have?
Not samples where you need to add a TB of RAM and pay on top to buy the samples, just which instrument comes with that sound by default? Kronos? Roland? Privia? Motif? I really want to know.

[tomzi]

just which instrument comes with that sound by default? Kronos? Roland? Privia? Motif? I really want to know.

and if there is an instrument that is more your taste, why don´t you sell your nord and buy the other instrument.....

[stiiiiiiive]

just which instrument comes with that sound by default? Kronos? Roland? Privia? Motif? I really want to know.

and if there is an instrument that is more your taste, why don´t you sell your nord and buy the other instrument.....

I'm not sure Mr G meant it that way.


To me, the instrument in question is a Rhodes. Esay, I know... but true

You know what? I'm french, people here are often complaining. I think I developed kind of a counter-complaining syndrome
I think I'm upset when people are angry against the guys that provided me such cool instruments, really. But definitely, I would be glad to have "better" EPs (not newer, better).

I agree with you and

[Ecaroh]

I am not saying that we should get exactly same sounds that those competitors have. IMO all of them have good and not so good qualities. For example, Roland "Supernatural" technology gives you a very round and even Rhodes type of sound but which is same time lacking "balls". So basically I don't want Clavia to copy that exactly but maybe they could try get something towards that. Unfortunately I haven't played Kronos or Motif lately but probably they have similarly good and not that good qualities

My point is that Clavia has everything there to make it happen: they have knowledge to record pianos and make them sound good. Now they have more memory too (well, they could give us little more...). Why do they let their competitors get better and better while they sit on their chairs and do not really develope their instruments. Least they could do is to give us little more choises for adjusting keyboard dynamics. And when we compare these vintage Rhodes etc. sounds to Kronos or other same price range instruments, let's not forget that those others give so much more features and so much modern stuff like color touchscreens etc. I am not saying that Clavia should go to this direction. IMo to be still in the game Clavia should definitely do what they are best at: producing great keyboard sounds for live oriented player.