Best Studio Monitors for my new Nord Piano 2 ???????

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LeoNP2
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Re: Best Studio Monitors for my new Nord Piano 2 ???????

Post by LeoNP2 »

Super helpfull? WOW jajaja Thank you Ivercaut, Organaut, frantzkb, Macphil1, Dave Ferris and Quantics :thumbup:

Ivercaut why Clavia needs neutral sounding speakers?

I just want a "warm" sound nice to my ears, with many details and a deep bass (that's why I was thinking in a Sub)
I'm not mixing..... I just play pianopatches with my new NP2.....

Frantzkb if you had now 2000-2500€ and an untrated room 13 ft (4m) x 10 ft (3m) wath would you do in my place? :mrgreen:


:yourock:
Last edited by LeoNP2 on 31 Jul 2012, 12:30, edited 2 times in total.
LeoNP2
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Re: Best Studio Monitors for my new Nord Piano 2 ???????

Post by LeoNP2 »

I need your advice because here, where I live, I can't find those studio monitors to test.....

Thank you again.....
Last edited by LeoNP2 on 31 Jul 2012, 12:30, edited 3 times in total.
macphil1
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Re: Best Studio Monitors for my new Nord Piano 2 ???????

Post by macphil1 »

i just bought two MSP7: for me they sound perfectly even compared to Newman kh120 (the vendor told me that the newman where the more precise monitors hever heard... not for me )
I will keep you up to date of the final test: at home.
Last edited by macphil1 on 31 Jul 2012, 12:30, edited 2 times in total.
lvercaut
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Re: Best Studio Monitors for my new Nord Piano 2 ???????

Post by lvercaut »

LeoNP2 wrote:Ivercaut why Clavia needs neutral sounding speakers?

I just want a "warm" sound nice to my ears, with many details and a deep bass (that's why I was thinking in a Sub)
I'm not mixing..... I just play pianopatches with my new NP2.....


Yes, sure maybe i'm thinking the wrong way.
But at the other end, you definitely want to hear the high quality samples as pure as possible.
There is nothing to obscure in the clavia piano samples.
Last edited by lvercaut on 31 Jul 2012, 12:30, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Best Studio Monitors for my new Nord Piano 2 ???????

Post by Frantz »

LeoNP2 wrote:Frantzkb if you had now 2000-2500€ and an untrated room 13 ft (4m) x 10 ft (3m) wath would you do in my place? :mrgreen:
I would keep some money for buying stands in order to have the tweeters at the height of my ears, for instance ;)
Acoustic is important. Sometimes buying a sofa and a carpet is a better invest then putting 500 € more into a speaker.
You can't go wrong with any the speakers listed in this thread so far.
Your choice will be the good one.
Last edited by Frantz on 31 Jul 2012, 12:30, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Best Studio Monitors for my new Nord Piano 2 ???????

Post by pablomastodon »

For my ears, nothing beats BAG END. For your room, a pair of M6s with a 12" powered sub will do nicely and give you the warmth you seek without breaking the bank. In my 22' x 14' room I use MMT-8s with an 18" sub. Never fails to impress...

Bless,

Pablo
Last edited by pablomastodon on 31 Jul 2012, 12:30, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Best Studio Monitors for my new Nord Piano 2 ???????

Post by nordfanatic »

Ok so I know nothing about acoustics, but I know what I like and what sounds good to my brain. So if you have a set of average ounding speakers, Yamaha HS80's ir example, that generate a relatively fiat frequency response at appropriate sound pressure levels, I.e. the level a large Steinway produces, what the heck do you need acoustic room treatments for?

You wouldn't acoustically treat your room if you had an actual live Steinway sitting there, or would you? I have never heard anyone claim the bass of an actual Steinway being too boomy, or the high end too thin.
Last edited by nordfanatic on 31 Jul 2012, 12:30, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Best Studio Monitors for my new Nord Piano 2 ???????

Post by mjbrands »

nordfanatic wrote:do you need acoustic room treatments for?
If you put your nice speakers (with an almost perfectly flat frequency response) in a (smallish) room (with hard/reflective walls) and perform some measurements, for example with frequency sweeps, you'll find the acoustic response of your room is far from flat. Some frequencies will sound louder, others softer and this will also depend on where you are in the room. For standings waves (room modes) this will often be in the bass range.

Apart from this you will also get reflections. Your brain is very good at filtering out certain parts of sounds it doesn't need, but if the original sound and the reflection reach your ears very close in time (because both your speakers and your ears are fairly close to the wall/object that causes the reflection) your brain can't filter it out and it will muddle up the original sound.

If you treat your room for mixing duties, you will normally do this for one specific (optimal) listening position. The figure below shows typical positions where treatment for that kind of application would be applied.

Image

Note that this optimizes the room mostly for one listening position; sit somewhere else and the sound will not be as good (but still better than in an untreated room).

Another option (not quite as good as room treatment, but certainly more acceptable to the wife :mrgreen: ) is using some kind of room correction device; I use a KRK Ergo. You usually place this device between your sound source and your speakers and then perform a set of measurements. The software (or the device) measures the acoustic response of the room and then modifies the incoming sound from your sound source in such a way that when it is played back via your speakers it is perceived as having a much flatter frequency response.

With the KRK Ergo device (and probably others) you set up both a 'focus' position (the sweet spot in the figure above) and a 'global' correction and you can switch between those two and 'off' (the difference is quite noticeable) with a button. The focus position optimizes the sound for listing in one particular spot (which might actually make it worse when listening in a different position of the room) while the global position tries to get the best average frequency response in the whole room (which is not as effective as when in the focus position, but certainly sounds better if you have people in multiple locations in that room).

The following image gives an idea of what the acoustic response (in blue) for a room might be like and what correction (in green) could be applied to get rid of the most troublesome spikes and dips in the response.

Image

The KRK Ergo device I have is a scaled down version (it only does 0-500 Hz) of a product of Lyngdorf, which produces a version used in hifi setups (which does 0-1000 Hz). Incidentally, Lyngdorf has been acquired by Steinway a while ago. If it is good enough for Steinway, it is good enough for me. :D

As mentioned before in this thread a carpet, sofa or some heavy curtains behind you might already sound a lot better.

Btw. I think there is an Open Source/free software room correction product. You would run the outputs of your Nord to a pc and then the (corrected) output of your pc to the speakers/amplifier. Might not be a long-term/convenient solution, but might give you an idea of what can be done.
Last edited by mjbrands on 31 Jul 2012, 12:30, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Best Studio Monitors for my new Nord Piano 2 ???????

Post by nordfanatic »

Ok, that is somewhat overwhelming, but Very interesting! But, my question is this --- if you wheel a top of the line Steinway into your room, studio, living oom, etc. --- would you treat the room acoustically if for example you didn't like the low end of the Steinway, which I can imagine is even possible. There is no EQ on a Steinway.

What is the difference between the sound coming directly from an acoustic piano and a hypothetical perfect speaker system, other than its source, or is that the difference, and thus the answer. If you are sitting blindfolded in a room with a top end Steinway and a perfect set of speakers, can the average listener tell the difference in a blind test test. Wouldn't a C-major directly fom the Steinway sound identical to a recorded C-Major fom that same Stinway played through the perfect speaker?

Look, I have the Nord Piano. It is surrounded by 4 Yamaha HS-80's plus the matching sub. The Nord piano samples are truly extraordinary to my ears, which ain't bad, and what I perceive to be just a very small notch below an actual acoustic piano. I can't imagine how the Nord pianos could sound any better? Well I guess one could buy the perfect speaker if money was no object. But if that was the case, one would buy the acoustic piano, no?
Last edited by nordfanatic on 31 Jul 2012, 12:30, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Best Studio Monitors for my new Nord Piano 2 ???????

Post by bdodds »

Well, sound emanating from a speaker and from a piano in front of you are two different things - a piano is fairly omnidirectional while a speaker is highly directional. But despite that they do share similarities with the way they interact with a room's acoustics. People most certainly treat rooms with pianos in them, and placement of a piano in a room has proven guidelines that help get the best sound out of a piano.
Last edited by bdodds on 31 Jul 2012, 12:30, edited 2 times in total.
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