A question to IEM users (not solo gigs) and recommendations?

[Winds]

What do you mean by "the monitoring needs balanced cables"? My cheap Behringer P2 accepts balanced mono or unbalanced stereo.

What I meant by "splitter", is something like this: https://www.thomann.de/de/palmer_pls02_ ... litter.htm.

Hmm I think what I meant like in the 3rd picture of here https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... ed-di-outs it says balanced at monitor so I figured the monitoring needs balanced cables

[FZiegler]

The Key Largo is definitely a valuable tool and widely used as a keyboard sub mixer in the Nord community.

It does not provide the possibility to create a special monitor mix, it will just allow for adjusting the volume separately for the main out and monitor out. So I decided that it doesn't serve my needs for a special IEM mix where I want to hear not only myself, but the whole band, with my keys centered and emphasised. That's why I read on the forum that some users have a dedicated monitor mixer in addition to a Key Largo.

But you're right: The manual of the Key Largo says that even the Mon out is balanced and they don't say anything about usage with (unbalanced) TS cables.

[Winds]

some users have a dedicated monitor mixer in addition to a Key Largo.

Hmm your point makes me think of another question. What's the purpose of having both a monitor mixer and a Key Largo? Wouldn't monitoring from one mixer be enough? And if a monitor mixer is already present, wouldn't directly monitoring from that mixer be enough which defeats the purpose of having a Key Largo?

[FZiegler]

The Key Largo is typically used to sum up multiple keyboards into one stereo line signal. Advantage: It's your decision how the different instruments are weighted + very low noise in the line-out.

As the output of the KL in this scenario isn't what you want to hear in the monitor signal (it's only the keys section), you need a second mixer. The KL itself isn't able to provide a secondary AUX mix.

If you have only one keyboard and no software sounds, there is no need for a keys sub mixer (KL). As I play everything through my NS3C (even the piano parts from an external weighted keyboard), I only use a monitor mixer, but no KL.

[ericL]

some users have a dedicated monitor mixer in addition to a Key Largo.

Hmm your point makes me think of another question. What's the purpose of having both a monitor mixer and a Key Largo? Wouldn't monitoring from one mixer be enough? And if a monitor mixer is already present, wouldn't directly monitoring from that mixer be enough which defeats the purpose of having a Key Largo?

I'm one of the folks that uses both a dedicated mixer (either Key Largo for practice rig or Radial KL-8 for gig rig), PLUS a separate device that allows me to mix relative volumes between the keyboards and band mix. I use a Shure P4M that can receive four lines and has easily accessible knobs on the front to adjust these - so I have a panned stereo keyboard mix that originates from my Radial mixer and either a mono or panned stereo mix coming from the FOH band mix.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... nitor.html

The Radial mixer allows me to control the various aspects of my keyboards and what is being sent to FOH and the separate P4M gives me easy control of the separate band mix and how it is leveled against my keyboard mix. All of this feeds my IEM rig. It sounds complicated, though it has served me well for over a decade and I love it!

[Winds]

If you have only one keyboard and no software sounds, there is no need for a keys sub mixer (KL). As I play everything through my NS3C (even the piano parts from an external weighted keyboard), I only use a monitor mixer, but no KL.

Oh in that case then I guess a KL is not necessary for me cuz I only use an NS3 now, so one board only (for now ) and therefore just need a proper monitor mixer instead. I figure in terms of channels I should probably get as much channels as I 'generally use' during gigs correct? For example I think in my current situation since I'm dealing with normal band setups (drums/guitar/bass/singer) and acoustic setups (less inputs needed) so maybe even a Behringer Xenyx X2222 USB or a Soundcraft Notepad 12FX should be enough correct? Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think mixers makes a HUGE difference in sound, and even if it does it can still be tweaked easily on the NS3 so...at the end of the day wouldn't make much of a difference....? (I think)

[Winds]

I'm one of the folks that uses both a dedicated mixer (either Key Largo for practice rig or Radial KL-8 for gig rig), PLUS a separate device that allows me to mix relative volumes between the keyboards and band mix. I use a Shure P4M that can receive four lines and has easily accessible knobs on the front to adjust these - so I have a panned stereo keyboard mix that originates from my Radial mixer and either a mono or panned stereo mix coming from the FOH band mix.

The Radial mixer allows me to control the various aspects of my keyboards and what is being sent to FOH and the separate P4M gives me easy control of the separate band mix and how it is leveled against my keyboard mix. All of this feeds my IEM rig. It sounds complicated, though it has served me well for over a decade and I love it!

Yea um.. I think some pictorial representation of how the overall signal chains look like could be nice, or just an explanation should cover, this part of monitoring is still new to me.. (tbh I don't think any1 here at my area does it.. at least in my 15 years of gigging I personally haven't seen anyone tried, prolly cuz it ain't the cheapest route...)

[ericL]

I'm one of the folks that uses both a dedicated mixer (either Key Largo for practice rig or Radial KL-8 for gig rig), PLUS a separate device that allows me to mix relative volumes between the keyboards and band mix. I use a Shure P4M that can receive four lines and has easily accessible knobs on the front to adjust these - so I have a panned stereo keyboard mix that originates from my Radial mixer and either a mono or panned stereo mix coming from the FOH band mix.

The Radial mixer allows me to control the various aspects of my keyboards and what is being sent to FOH and the separate P4M gives me easy control of the separate band mix and how it is leveled against my keyboard mix. All of this feeds my IEM rig. It sounds complicated, though it has served me well for over a decade and I love it!

Yea um.. I think some pictorial representation of how the overall signal chains look like could be nice, or just an explanation should cover, this part of monitoring is still new to me.. (tbh I don't think any1 here at my area does it.. at least in my 15 years of gigging I personally haven't seen anyone tried, prolly cuz it ain't the cheapest route...)

That's a fair request! I think what I'm using is a little bit unique and I didn't need this type of rig until I started using IEMs exclusively back in 2011. It's a pretty flexible rig that works for me even when I'm playing a show where not everyone else is using IEMs...I just have the FOH or monitor tech send me one mono or two stereo XLRs for my band mix, which would usually be sent to a monitor wedge.

I'll grab some pictures and also draw out the signal chain later so it makes more sense. I'll try typing it up here, based on my current live rig that is a Nord Stage 3 + Ventilator (occasionally a rack synth or second keyboard).

• Nord Stage 3 outputs 1 & 2 (stereo mix of pianos/synths) -> Radial channel 1

• Nord Stage 3 output 3 (dedicated organ channel) -> Ventilator

• Ventilator left/right stereo outputs -> Radial channel 2

• Other synth left/right stereo outputs -> Radial channel 3

• Radial XLR main stereo outputs -> FOH

• Radial stereo monitor outputs -> Shure P4M channels 1 & 2

• Band monitor mix -> Shure P4M channels 3 & 4

• Shure P4M left/right stereo outputs -> Shure PSM900 IEM rack (now I have the combo of my stereo keyboard mix + stereo band mix feeding my IEMs)

Hope this helps! I'll come back later with some pictures and further explanation.

[Winds]

Hope this helps! I'll come back later with some pictures and further explanation.

Yea um.. it still seems a bit difficult for me to visualise as it is all very new to me, but I guess I can visualise it slowly with text... BUT I think I can understand it's very likely that the Radial Key Largo is not really needed for my situation for now I only use outputs 1 & 2 on my NS3...and also only 1 board... so now I need a decent mixer? A Behringer Xenyx X2222 USB or a Soundcraft Notepad 12FX cover my situation I think? (Only small band and acoustic setups)

[ajstan]

When I had only a single NS3 as my rig I used a Key Largo and a Rolls PM55P headphone mixer. Here is how I do it:

I send my NS3 stereo outs to a Radial Key Largo CHANNEL 1. The Key Largo MAIN XLR out(s) go to FOH. The Key Largo stereo 1/4” MONITOR outs go to a Rolls PM55P headphone mixer MONITOR IN, and an XLR mono AUX feed from the main board of all the other instruments/vocals goes into the Rolls PM55P MIC IN. My IEMs plug into the front panel of the Rolls PM55P. Hope this helps.