Nord User Forum

Very interesting topic. Can you say a little more about what signals you have on the stage-monitors. I guess vocals and acustic guitar? But when you are using your SpaceStation - I guess you dont need to have your signal on stage monitors as well ?

cphollis wrote:

AlQuinn wrote:Nice article Chuck. Almost all of it rings true for me. The only thing that surprised me is using the smaller K8s for mains and the larger K10s for monitors. I would have expected the opposite would work better but I hear what you're saying. Very interesting.

So, have you pulled the trigger on a Nord Piano 3 yet? I'm holding the line for the time being ... don't know how long I'll last though.

No, I haven't even played a Nord Piano 3 yet. Since I'm happy with my CP4 I'm in no hurry to try out something else that I might end up wanting!

NoDirection wrote:Very interesting topic. Can you say a little more about what signals you have on the stage-monitors. I guess vocals and acustic guitar? But when you are using your SpaceStation - I guess you dont need to have your signal on stage monitors as well ?

For most of the smaller venues we play in as a bar band, it's (a) no amplified instruments through the PA and monitors, usually vocals only, and (b) my keyboards through the SpaceStation 3. Theoretically, we could us the SSv3 as our PA, and I could use the current PA speakers as my keyboard amplification.

The guiding principle here is to reserve the PA and monitors to amplify things that need it (e.g. vocals, acoustic guitar, mandolin) and not run amplified instruments through it (e.g. electric guitars, bass, keyboards, drums).

Doing so makes for a much cleaner sound, much simpler mixing, etc. On stage, we can usually hear each other just fine. For the audience, they get the experience of listening to individual instruments, each with an apparent point source vs. a homogenized mix from the PA.

cphollis wrote:

NoDirection wrote:Very interesting topic. Can you say a little more about what signals you have on the stage-monitors. I guess vocals and acustic guitar? But when you are using your SpaceStation - I guess you dont need to have your signal on stage monitors as well ?

For most of the smaller venues we play in as a bar band, it's (a) no amplified instruments through the PA and monitors, usually vocals only, and (b) my keyboards through the SpaceStation 3. Theoretically, we could us the SSv3 as our PA, and I could use the current PA speakers as my keyboard amplification.

The guiding principle here is to reserve the PA and monitors to amplify things that need it (e.g. vocals, acoustic guitar, mandolin) and not run amplified instruments through it (e.g. electric guitars, bass, keyboards, drums).

Doing so makes for a much cleaner sound, much simpler mixing, etc. On stage, we can usually hear each other just fine. For the audience, they get the experience of listening to individual instruments, each with an apparent point source vs. a homogenized mix from the PA.

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I tried the SSv3...sent it back. No one could hear me onstage, I couldn't hear myself. Total fiasco. I sounded ok as solo, but did not do what it was supposed to do. For me, WAY underpowered. Went back to my Roland KC550. Would love to use a nice set of powered slants, but to much stuff to haul around. Maybe 2 KC550s in Stereo. I know that's not optimum, but fast and easy... and loud enough to compete/blend with guitars and power drummer.


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smcelyea wrote:I tried the SSv3...sent it back. No one could hear me onstage, I couldn't hear myself. Total fiasco. I sounded ok as solo, but did not do what it was supposed to do. For me, WAY underpowered. Went back to my Roland KC550. Would love to use a nice set of powered slants, but to much stuff to haul around. Maybe 2 KC550s in Stereo. I know that's not optimum, but fast and easy... and loud enough to compete/blend with guitars and power drummer.

Wow, one of two things has to be true. (1) you play with a band that is outrageous loud, or (2) you weren't using a small mixer to feed it enough gain. The Nord Electro 3 was infamously weak in that regard, among other boards.

When I run out of volume with my SSv3, that's my cue that we're playing too damn loud.

cphollis wrote:

smcelyea wrote:I tried the SSv3...sent it back. No one could hear me onstage, I couldn't hear myself. Total fiasco. I sounded ok as solo, but did not do what it was supposed to do. For me, WAY underpowered. Went back to my Roland KC550. Would love to use a nice set of powered slants, but to much stuff to haul around. Maybe 2 KC550s in Stereo. I know that's not optimum, but fast and easy... and loud enough to compete/blend with guitars and power drummer.

Wow, one of two things has to be true. (1) you play with a band that is outrageous loud, or (2) you weren't using a small mixer to feed it enough gain. The Nord Electro 3 was infamously weak in that regard, among other boards.

When I run out of volume with my SSv3, that's my cue that we're playing too damn loud.

I second that motion, cphollis. I'm a member of a VERY loud band. (We're quite proud of our "cancellation" list from various local venues who deem us "too loud" for their rooms.) With an Allen & Heath ZED-10FX mixer between a Nord Stage 2 and a Spacestation 3, I can be the loudest instrument onstage (if I want to be)... I don't care who's playing those Marshall stacks.

I was coming direct 1/4" from my MOXF8 or NordStage2EX. No mixer. The space station was loud enough on it's own, but the omnidirectional sound did not work well as my monitor. People said they could hear it out in the venue, but not on stage. Perhaps the stage wasn't big enough for it to "bloom". Nevertheless, it didn't happen for me. Not even close to what a KC550 put out... The band I play in is not ridiculously loud, only Vocals are in the PA. Oh well on my larger gigs I am in the PA and have a great slant, or use IEMs.



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QSC just dropped the price of their K series by $100 which puts me in the market for a monitor.i would love to rock a K8 but I'm afraid I might miss the lows, so I might just get a K12 and call it a day. Yamaha DXR series look good too, but since the price Drop seems like QSC would be the better deal. Who knows I may end up with some Alto TS12. Or a TS12 and a TS15.

My question in short: For smaller spaces and audiences (both inside and outside, less than 150 people), what is the tradeoff between (1) running everything trough PA vs (2) amplifying instruments individually and only routing mic'd sources (vocals, saxophone, bass drum) through the PA? Our band is building a system from scratch. What do YOU recommend / use yourself? Budget is a concern, but successful gigs are a higher priority.

And here is some additional information:
We play in a 5-piece band: drums (acoustic or electric), bass, guitar, keys and keys/sax. 4 of us do vocals evenly (the drummer is too shy). Our gigs are for audiences of 50-500.

For years we have run a somewhat large and complex PA/monitoring system:
Main PA: 2x Mackie SRM 650 + Subs
Monitors: 2x QSC K10 (tasty), 2x Behringer B121D (less tasty) and IEMs for our drummer.
Mixer: Soundcraft UI24r.

Sound from the Mackie's (with subs) has never been a bottleneck. Both loudness and quality are good enough. K10's as many here know, are definitely good enough monitors for any source. Behringers are OK for bass and guitar players, because they mainly use them for vocals. The drummer seems to like IEMs. I tried them for a while, but for some reason I like to hear things in the real space. The UI24r allows us to do our own monitor mixes, which contrary some peoples experience (like @cphollis and their blog) has not resulted in ridiculous stage noise or uncontrollable feedback.

So why are we building a new system? The equipment we currently have is shared between us and a very similar group, and both groups booking gigs at the same time is a problem. This setup feels a bit overkill for small shows, so what about an alternative, maybe simpler approach?