B3/leslie types - Can you hear the difference

[Streef]

Hi all,

For some reason I cannot hear *any* difference between the 'Clean' and 'Vintage 1' B3 setting. The same for 122 / 122 Close Leslie.

Anyone experiencing the same?

Nord Stage 3 HA88, os 1.22

Thx

[NordPH]

No.

But If you are new to hammonds and leslies i guess it's not as easy to hear the difference.

[lordy]

Yes, but you are right for the clean/vintage 1. There is absolutely no difference. Not fixed yet.

[Streef]

Thanks for that feedback. And I'm def. not an expert on hammonds/leslies fro sure. But I would have expected to be able to hear at least some difference, if not, what's the point .

@Lordy, thx for confirming. Does that also apply to the 122/122 close leslie?

[baekgaard]

Last time I checked, there WAS (or IS) a difference also between clean and vintage 1, but it's very subtle. I even recorded the output and analysed the audio spectrum to document this; see http://www.norduserforum.com/post90208.html#p90208 for the details. As you maybe can see, the main difference is in sub-harmonics/mix-products in the lower range of the spectrum.

The difference between 122 and 122 close is greater, but maybe not so easy to hear if you're not used to B3s


-- Per.

[Streef]

Thanks for that, indeed it is audible that way, there is difference between clean, vintage1 and vintage2 . Albeit very very little

Also, I can hear a difference between 122 and 122close, again it is quite subtle.

I guess I expected to hear some bigger differences

cheers, Steven

[lordy]

difference between clean and vintage 1 ?
Sorry, but no. even a machine can see things. There is absolutely no difference for a human. Try a c2, a ne5, you'll see.

[baekgaard]

difference between clean and vintage 1 ?
Sorry, but no. even a machine can see things. There is absolutely no difference for a human. Try a c2, a ne5, you'll see.

I'm not sure if there has been any changes with the more recent updates, but when I checked last time (probably on 1.04), I could 1) hear a difference, and that's why I 2) recorded a sample and analysed it, to document that it wasn't just me making things up I could do it again on the latest release, to see if it is now different.

The measurements are objective and "the machine" will not make up a difference when there is none!

I have a NE3 sitting on top of my NS3, and on the NE3 the difference is much larger and very noticeable between clean and vintage 1, 2 and 3. I'm sure the differences also are larger on the C2 and the NE5, that has the more recent engine.

I don't know why Nord changed the "amount" of "vintageness" in the NS3 compared to the C2 and NE5. It could be on purpose or it could still be un undesired side-effect; let's see what happens. I'm also not sure that it makes sense to have clean and vintage 1 as close as they are, but I do remember at times that with my NE3, I sometimes wanted a setting between clean and vintage 1. YMMV.

[Gospelkeys]

The difference between 122 and 122 close is the depth of the modulation which is the effect of putting the mics closer to the rotors.

I find the difference between them gets more noticeable at higher volumes - not so much in headphones or studio monitors although I can still hear it.

[baekgaard]

I tried the test that I linked to above again, just this time creating a little different graphical layout of the spectrogram. On the latest OS here.

I can still audibly hear the difference between clean and vintage 1, although it's very very faint. Some EQ helps, as explained in the link above and can make it stand out clearly.

Here's the spectrogram. At around 4.4 sec I change from clean to vintage 1, and to vintage 2 around 6.6 sec. Note the difference around 200 Hz.



Why does it matter whether it's not there at all or very small? Because it if would have been a simple User Interface glitch, there would be no difference. But now that there IS a difference, it means the organ modelling applies a different setting -- so it could be on purpose, or it could be a (more complex) bug.