Mellotron, Watcher Of The Skies, Genesis.

[cel2112]

I've just been constantly been listening to watcher of the skies by genesis, the Mellotron intro is an absolute classic. I've been doing research on the song and i found out that Tony Banks uses a Mellotron Mk II Brass sound and a Mk II 3 violins sound, and they are blended together and played through a Leslie with overdrive, a good thing is i can download the sounds off the Nord website, i can play it through a Leslie with overdrive. BUT does anyone out there know how to blend the Mk II Brass and Violins on a NE3 to achieve this problem.

PLEASE HELP!

Thanks.

[YvesEchoes]

hi,

with a NE3/4, unfortunately you cant't mix two samples, so you have to create a brand new patch.

you have to record the brass and the violin with any recorder, note by note (or just a few notes, it depends on the size you want your sample to be).

Then you mix the two tracks for each note, in order to have samples of every note with the two mixed sounds.

now you just have to use the Nord Sample Editor to create you new patch, using the samples you just created.

I don't know any other way to do what you want to do

have a look there to hear my mellotron sample : http://www.norduserforum.com/post5965.h ... tron#p5965 .

[anotherscott]

does anyone out there know how to blend the Mk II Brass and Violins on a NE3 to achieve this problem.

As Yves said, you can't do it directly. The Nord Stage 2 can play two sample library sounds at once, but the Electros cannot. But there are a number of ways to address this. Yves' suggestion of sampling each sound individually into your computer and creating a blended sound to send back into the Nord is one way. Somewhat simpler, by cutting out the first half of that operation, is to use mellotron samples already available for your computer instead of creating them yourself out of the Nord. One source would be:

http://www.vintagekeyboardsounds.com/pa ... otron.html

There is also a nice pre-assembled Watcher sound in soundfont format at:

http://www.freedrumkits.net/sound-fonts ... -soundfont

You could use that as a sample source, or you can use a program that can turn the soundfont into a more usable format, probably with a program like Chicken Systems Translator.

or if you have an iPad that you can trigger from the Nord, you could load that soundfont directly into the iPad and play it from there. I've used an app called BS-16i, but there are also some other apps that are supposed to be able to play soundfonts: MIDI Keyboard, Caustic, and Soundfont Pro.

There are also some iPad apps that are dedicated mellotron sound players: Super Manetron and M3000. You may be able to use them directly, or use them as sample sources to bring sounds into the Nord. There are mellotron virtual instruments available for your computer as well, like M-Tron Pro. There have been some free ones around, too.

[JiminWales]

I think it was a dual mellotron (2 separate keyboards with different tape racks). So the brass and string parts are played independently - not layered. Also, it doesn't sound like a Leslie but an early (hence subtle) phaser pedal like the MXR 90.
When the dual 'tron wasn't available, the Hammond T had to take the brass part until he got the ARP Pro Soloist.
Given the Nord has ample keyboard compared to the 'tron, you ought to be able to have the brass and strings either side of a single sample set.
I'm not sure though if the Nord sound manager will allow you place samples in a lower or higher octave on the keys but keep their original pitch?

[RedLeo]

I think it was a dual mellotron (2 separate keyboards with different tape racks). So the brass and string parts are played independently - not layered. Also, it doesn't sound like a Leslie but an early (hence subtle) phaser pedal like the MXR 90.

Genesis "Watcher Of The Skies" intro:

No, it was played as a single take. The string and brass sounds can be mixed by putting the selector switch in an "in-between position", although it's a bit fiddley on the mk2s. The organ part added (as a double of the main part) at the climax of the intro is also part of this take, which is why the left-hand bass notes on the Mellotron disappear at this point. The bass notes were played on the second Mellotron keyboard, and is usually reported as being the piano-accordian sound (!)

Also, I've played a Mellotron 400 through a Leslie and this gives pretty much the same sound as on the record, although I can't confirm that a Leslie was used on the original recording. However, the MXR Phase 90 wasn't released until 1974, two years after Foxtrot was released. I don't think there were any electronic phasers around in 1972, although of course tape phasing had been around for years.

[JiminWales]

Ah well, I'm more familiar with several live versions more than the studio original. But I'm sure I've seen video with the dual Mellotron played on both halves for most of the intro followed by only the strings half + Hammond. There are quite a few different versions out there with variations including bass guitar, bass pedals and pro-solist making contributions within the intro before the organ bed+pulsing bass section.

No Phasers in '72? Damn! But wait, there was the Maestro and Uni-vibe - same technology - pre BBD delay. I think the MXR was first to use FET's to sweep the phase shift rather than lamp+LDR's in the earlier FX?

[anotherscott]

of course tape phasing had been around for years.

I think you mean flanging, which sounds different from phasing.

[RedLeo]

Oops. Double post. Deleted.

[RedLeo]

of course tape phasing had been around for years.

I think you mean flanging, which sounds different from phasing.

No, it is tape phasing. It is commonly referred to as flanging because of the method often used to produce the effect (by applying pressure to the upper flange of one of the tape reels). "Phasing" is of course a contraction of "phase shifting", and "flanging" is just a subset of the available effects. The time difference between the two reels can be varied in a number of different ways, often involving some pretty bizarre methods, and the amount of difference can produce a lot of different effects, smaller differences producing the more pronounced effect we call flanging.

The distinct difference between "phasing" and "flanging" in electronic effects is not so clearcut when using tape.

For anybody who likes math:

http://www.sfu.ca/sonic-studio/handbook/Phasing.html

[JiminWales]

Having done a bit of research, the Maestro PS-1 phase shifter was introduced in 1971 and like the later MXR did use lots of FET transistors to control the shift. It was Tom Oberheims first big success and he initially set out to imitate a Leslie speaker with it. The modulation speeds were presets, but did have a speed-up or slow-down effect when changed.