Nord Lead 4R, USB issues

[Kibosh]

EDIT!!! The NORD-LEAD 4R is NOT the cause off the USB Problems!!! So everything in this post is caused by my mobo and MOTU audio interface.

Hey all,

I've bought the Nord-Lead 4R a little more then a week ago together with a new audio interface, the MOTU 828 mk3 Hybrid. But from the start, the MOTU would hang when I was going out off Ableton Live 9.1 or tried to change something within the MOTU from Ableton. So after a long search and all steps below:
- Update PC bios
- Update chipset en USB drivers
- Disabling on board sound
- Uninstalling on-board sound drivers and all software that came with it
- Upgrading the MOTU OS
- Reinstalling the MOTU drivers

I discovered that it is not only the MOTU that was causing the problem. It actually is the Nord-Lead 4R that is causing it. When I connect the Nord-Lead 4R to one of my USB2 ports, I can with ease make the MOTU crash, also when the MOTU is connected to Firewire. When the Nord-Lead is connected to one of my USB3 ports, things are a lot better.

My specs:
- Windows 7 professional SP1 64 bit
- 16GB RAM
- Mobo: Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H
- CPU Intel Core i7-3770K

PS: I will contact Nord-Lead tech support, maybe tomorrow, but still need to do some more testing on my side because all the time I was focused on the MOTU, when I should have been looking to the NL4R.
I still have to do more testing, but did anyone discovered, or had the same problems? I also upgraded the Nord-Lead to OS 1.22 this week. Some things were solved but not my problem with the MOTU interface.

[mjbrands]

This is truly a weird problem.

I think the only service the NL4 offers over USB is a class-compliant MIDI implementation, which just uses the driver that came with your OS. If that somehow causes USB issues, other (similar) MIDI-over-USB devices that use the same driver might also cause issues. That is assuming there are no bugs in the USB implementation of the NL4.

Your Gigabyte motherboard doesn't look like a cheapy where they cut quite a lot of corners to get the cost down, so I'd expect the USB implementation to be correct. Do you happen to have a USB hub (with it's own power supply for bonus points)? If so, do you get the same issue when you connect the NL4 via that?

Edit: I did some googling for the chipset on your mobo (Z77) and USB problems and there are quite a few people who have problems similar to what you describe. Apparently the USB 2.0 ports are connected to the Intel Z77 chipset and the USB 3.0 ports to an additional VIA VL800 chipset.

I found these two posts interesting:

• http://www.tonymacx86.com/mountain-lion ... ssues.html
  http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/318 ... ts-working

To me it looks like the problem may still be with the motherboard.

[Kibosh]

Hey mjbrands,

Yesterday, off course not long after I created that post, the MOTU acted up again, peeps on Firewire (sample buffer 512), stopped playing audio on USB, then I connected it to a front USB3 connection and it worked. All the time the Nord-Lead was off. So I guess the Nord-Lead is off the hook.

Today, just now, started up and thought, let's get the MOTU working and it didn't with the port it was on yesterday when stopped. Switched it to a USB2 in the front of my PC and it's now playing again. Aargh, this thing is getting to me!!!!

But you are on the same page as me. I also think this has something to do with my motherboard. I also started to point my finger to the VIA USB hub chips, untill this morning. The front connectors go to the Intel Z77 chipset. Maybe it was because I first connected it to USB3, but why did it play yesterday evening? It worked fine for one hour yesterday evening on that USB3 front connection and this morning nothing? *sigh*

Another thing: Why didn't I have problems with the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 or with any other USB device connected wherever? My PC is now more then 2 years old. Never had USB issues untill now... And then, USB issues is a big word, because it's only the MOTU that is having issues?

I'm going to do some more digging, testing, inform MOTU again with the new findings. Thx for the links, it helped. There is a post with a firmware update off that VIA chip, but I find it weird that there is nothing off it on the Gigabyte website? Hold's me back to install that? Don't want to destroy my PC.

One thing I'm sure off. The MOTU driver is fragile. It's not all my motherboard fault.

EDIT: Updated the VIA VL810 Firmwares. The program for downloading worked ok. It first checked if there were any VL810 presents and checked their firmwares. So now I'm on the latest firmware and the MOTU is connected to one of those chips on the backpanel off the motherboard at a USB3 port. It is playing, that's one, let's see for how long and with any hickups or not.

Link with firmware for the VIA VL810 USB hub chips : http://via-labs.com/en/support/downloads.jsp#firmware (if someone is having the same problems)

[mjbrands]

From what I read, I got the impression that the issue is in the Z77 chipset, not the VIA one.

[Kibosh]

After the upgrading the VIA chips, things are much more stable. I've let it work all day yesterday, just at the end it made klicking sounds while I was surfing the net and no audio was playing at that time. Really strange. Turning the MOTU on and off fixed it. So it isn't perfect yet but already better.

So you say the Z77 chipset? The VIA's are Hubs connected to that one so yes, that can still cause extra problems. I will dig some more, maybe try drivers directly from Intel instead off the Gigabyte website.

Thx

[mjbrands]

Interesting to hear that upgrading the VIA drivers seems to help. The drivers for most chipsets should be included with Windows (and updates), but likely the respective vendors provide more recent version (which might have important fixes).

[Kibosh]

Yes, it helped in a way. But still not perfect.

Every USB device is connected to the back panel of my PC which passes through the VIA chips which act like hubs. Then it all passes again trough the Intel Z77 chipset. All internal USB connections are directly on the Z77. In my PC the front USB off the PC case are wired to two off those internal connections. But they also aren't stable.

Those links you posted aren't that old, and like you said, the Z77 has problems. But I've checked the Intel website and the drivers from Gigabyte are newer then those at the Intel website.

There is nothing more I can do at this time. I will contact my vendor and ask him about it so he can contact his person at Gigabyte Europe. We will see what comes out of it. Not much is my guess.

But still, I never had any noticable problems before. So I wonder, are the drivers from MOTU not that good then? Before I had the smaller Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 and it never gave a single problem.