My livegear needs an update. Softsynth or hardware synth?

[Nordfan]

Okay, a cry for help here

My good old Korg Triton Pro has been a solid synth in my live setup for almost 13 (!!!!) years now. But.... it desparately needs to be replaced by something new on my top tear live setup (last year I already started with adding the NS2 88 in the bottom tier). My Korg has totally worn out and soundwise it is not the top of the bill anymore (for many many years haha!)

So, my question to you. What should I do now? My basic question is if I should choose a new hardware synth (Korg Kronos is the only option for me) or a software synth.

I am almost sure to go for the softsynth setup. This is what it would look like:
- Macbook Pro Retina with 16GB RAM and 256GB SSD (or maybe 512GB SSD)
- a Motu 828MK3 Hybrid interface
- solid keyboard for my top tear with programmable buttons for live controls/tweaks Novation SL-MKII
- a solid and lockable SKB flightcase for safe protection of the Macbook Pro and practical placement of the Macbook Pro when you're on stage (last one also very very important!!)

I almost see only pros with this setup. Just to mention some:
- light weight
- flexibility (you always have your sounds with you just in a light weight flighcase and for rehearsels you don't need the second keyboard)
- unlimited database of sounds and other possibilities (sampling, backtracking, sequencing/home recording etc etc)
- relatively low costs (a Kronos costs EUR 3.000 without a flightcase and that gives you only a workstation where the most of us only use 40% of its capabilities max)
- updates of software and sounds are cheap (i.e. cheaper than buying a new Korg every 4-5 years)

The only con I see is the technical challenge. It needs an amount of time to figure everything out with respect to midi and other software. But once it works, you have a setup everybody is dreaming of. Right??

I am really curious for your visions on this. Am I missing something here that will change my mind immediately? Just for example, why do I see this setup not so often if I think it is so good as I think it is. However, when I look at pro bands I see Macbooks lined up next to each other haha! Really confusing......

Thanks for all your reactions!!

[shark]

Interesting nordfan, but where will your sounds be coming from ? NI software and such I suppose, right?

Call me old fashioned but the only keys I like to see on a stage are black and white, not qwerty!
Personally I only need half a dozen of different sounds (do you really need more???) apart from the piano and organ which are supplied by my E3 so an elaborate softsynth setup seems to be over the top for me. A good, light and compact midi controller hooked to a small but powerful expander does the trick for me but like I said I may be behind the times...

[mjbrands]

I am almost sure to go for the softsynth setup. This is what it would look like:
- Macbook Pro Retina with 16GB RAM and 256GB SSD (or maybe 512GB SSD)

You can easily spend more on a MacBook Pro than a Kronos would cost. I think you should not be using the same laptop for general browsing and such (increases the chance of having issues during a gig, etc.) so a super fast MacBook might not be the best choice.

If you want to host VST plugins, you could also have a look at Muse Receptor or its smaller brother the Musebox. They already include the audio interface.

- solid keyboard for my top tear with programmable buttons for live controls/tweaksNovation SL-MKII

If the drum pads are important to you, try one out in person: I have one and while I think it is a really nice product, the pads are not that nice.

- a solid and lockable SKB flightcase for safe protection of the Macbook Pro and practical placement of the Macbook Pro when you're on stage (last one also very very important!!)

That's a rather nifty case, I like it.

I almost see only pros with this setup. Just to mention some:
- light weight
- flexibility (you always have your sounds with you just in a light weight flighcase and for rehearsels you don't need the second keyboard)
- unlimited database of sounds and other possibilities (sampling, backtracking, sequencing/home recording etc etc)
- relatively low costs (a Kronos costs EUR 3.000 without a flightcase and that gives you only a workstation where the most of us only use 40% of its capabilities max)
- updates of software and sounds are cheap (i.e. cheaper than buying a new Korg every 4-5 years)

With maybe the exception of the first one, you could turn these into negatives:
- complex (flexibility)
- doesn't encourage creativity/productivity ('unlimited' database of sounds)
- you'll use even less of the available functionality (.. most of us only use 40% ..)
- you'll keep buying new sounds and plugins and hope everything keeps working (updates .. are cheap)

The only con I see is the technical challenge. It needs an amount of time to figure everything out with respect to midi and other software. But once it works, you have a setup everybody is dreaming of. Right??

You'll need to get to grips with the technology you'd use, but more importantly you'd need to figure out what you need/want and how you can realize that. If you have an idea of the kind of setup you want (mostly looking at functionality here), you can then start selecting what products could help you.

Just for example, why do I see this setup not so often if I think it is so good as I think it is. However, when I look at pro bands I see Macbooks lined up next to each other haha! Really confusing......

Reliability of laptop-based setups and the inherent complexity of (lots of) soft synths are issues that people bring up from time to time. That said, when I went to see Herbie Hancock a while ago, he had a Korg Oasys, a baby grand and three iMacs on stage.

I'm under the impression that a lot of acts that very clearly use laptops on stage use software like Ableton Live or Traktor and controllers like the Akai APC40, Novation Launchpad or Tractor Kontrol S4. I think trent Reznor said he enjoyed using Apple Mainstage during concerts.

[Nordfan]

I am almost sure to go for the softsynth setup. This is what it would look like:
- Macbook Pro Retina with 16GB RAM and 256GB SSD (or maybe 512GB SSD)

You can easily spend more on a MacBook Pro than a Kronos would cost. I think you should not be using the same laptop for general browsing and such (increases the chance of having issues during a gig, etc.) so a super fast MacBook might not be the best choice.

If you want to host VST plugins, you could also have a look at Muse Receptor or its smaller brother the Musebox. They already include the audio interface.

True, definitely true. It should be a dedicated laptop with only a selection of software that will really be used (and nothing else). All other docs and programmes will be stored on my PC and/or NAS. Although an MBP is expensive it gives you more than the Kronos. Because of the great user friendly software you will get more out of your gear than trying to sample, sequence, creating sounds on a Kronos.

- solid keyboard for my top tear with programmable buttons for live controls/tweaksNovation SL-MKII

If the drum pads are important to you, try one out in person: I have one and while I think it is a really nice product, the pads are not that nice.

The drumpads are not that important to me. The most important things are the sliders (for volumes of instruments, DI and in-ear signal) and easy access to the sounds on the MBP. And ofcourse, the keybed!! That is my main concern. The M-Audio Axiom Pro for example has a lousy keybed. The Novation has a better one and feels more solid so that explains my choice for Novation.

- a solid and lockable SKB flightcase for safe protection of the Macbook Pro and practical placement of the Macbook Pro when you're on stage (last one also very very important!!)

That's a rather nifty case, I like it.

It's great!! To be honest, I've already ordered one. Even without a laptop it is of great use.

I almost see only pros with this setup. Just to mention some:
- light weight
- flexibility (you always have your sounds with you just in a light weight flighcase and for rehearsels you don't need the second keyboard)
- unlimited database of sounds and other possibilities (sampling, backtracking, sequencing/home recording etc etc)
- relatively low costs (a Kronos costs EUR 3.000 without a flightcase and that gives you only a workstation where the most of us only use 40% of its capabilities max)
- updates of software and sounds are cheap (i.e. cheaper than buying a new Korg every 4-5 years)

With maybe the exception of the first one, you could turn these into negatives:
- complex (flexibility)
- doesn't encourage creativity/productivity ('unlimited' database of sounds)
- you'll use even less of the available functionality (.. most of us only use 40% ..)
- you'll keep buying new sounds and plugins and hope everything keeps working (updates .. are cheap)

Haha!! Very good comments! Much appreciated! However, it can get as complex as you want to. Structure and overview is very important to me. So I only use the software and plugins I really use like Logic, Mainstage, Kontakt and some other plugins (for strings and brass mainly).

I get your three last points but I don't agree. This setup gives access to more possibilities in a great user friendly interface. It is far more likely that you will make a great track on an MBP than on the Kronos (with its thousands of menus and submenus on a small screen). That is also one of the main cons of the Kronos, it is just too much that you won't use and that can't compete with Cubase, Ableton and/or Logic. Maybe I should include in my first post that it is not only for use on stage but also for homerecording.

With respect to the buying of more sounds, updates and plugins I don't see an issue there as long as you keep it under control. Also, Mac OSX is less vulnerable to filling you computer (and disk space) with useless crap (in comparison with most Windows PC's)

The only con I see is the technical challenge. It needs an amount of time to figure everything out with respect to midi and other software. But once it works, you have a setup everybody is dreaming of. Right??

You'll need to get to grips with the technology you'd use, but more importantly you'd need to figure out what you need/want and how you can realize that. If you have an idea of the kind of setup you want (mostly looking at functionality here), you can then start selecting what products could help you.

I agree on that! Luckily I have some friend who can help me with this and help me explore everything of what's possible. Another thing is, that I have a clear picture of what I want. After that it is just a matter of executing my idea

All in all, I just can't find something that provides me with so much possibilities, and that all in just one peace of gear. Don't get me wrong, I totally love Moog, Korg etc etc but they just can't offer me I want in just 1 instrument. And when it comes to choices (and hard cash) I'd go for the soft synth solution.

[Nordfan]

Interesting nordfan, but where will your sounds be coming from ? NI software and such I suppose, right?

Call me old fashioned but the only keys I like to see on a stage are black and white, not qwerty!
Personally I only need half a dozen of different sounds (do you really need more???) apart from the piano and organ which are supplied by my E3 so an elaborate softsynth setup seems to be over the top for me. A good, light and compact midi controller hooked to a small but powerful expander does the trick for me but like I said I may be behind the times...

I will probably use NI, Omnisphere and some good strings and pop brass. This quality can't be found in a Kronos.
And ofcourse, I don't need any piano, EP or organ. The NS2 already provides me with that

[mjbrands]

... don't see an issue there as long as you keep it under control.

I think this is the key ingredient to get it all working beautifully: if you can limit yourself to what you need and/or what you're used to working with, all that complexity (because of all the options you have) doesn't have to get in the way. You can create a setup that does exactly what you want, something you probably wouldn't be able to do without mixing and matching stuff from different vendors. It is easy to 'get lost' in all the sounds, options, plugins, etc. and 'waste' hours listening/searching for that one sound you were looking for.

Might I suggest you also give U-he Diva a try? They have a fully functional trial version and it does excellent virtual-analog sounds, with emphasis on some awesome sounding filters.

[Nordfan]

Thanks mjbrands! I totally agree with you on this. Maybe you can compare it to that moment when you get your new board and you try all sounds one-by-one. The other sound sounds even better than the previous one and in the end you don't know which one to choose.

I'm a little bit in that phase right now. I've downloaded some great plugins (East West, Project Sam, NI etc). Now I have to pick the right one for strings, brass, and virtual analog.

Thanks for the tip on U-he Diva. I surely will give it a try.

[Gustavo]

If you look to one of the guys who does the most complex stuff live, I think that's got to be Jordan Rudess (of Dream Theater). I mean just look at this: http://www.keyboardmag.com/article/jord ... ter/149067

I think that THAT is pretty insane to do. Still... most people wont even reach half that level of programming. In other parts, Jordan Rudess disscussed that while he does use a lot of softsynths in studio, he doesn't recommend people to use them live and that if they can, they should rely on hardware or get a specialized rack, like the Receptor. In the end of video 2, he says he prefers the Kronos to the VST Collection.

Now, that said, I think that most people prefer "hardware" because of its reliability. I've already run into some troubles while playing "live" (by which I mean practicing) with VSTs. And there can be certain unexpected instabilities that just happen. Yet with software like Albeton Live, most people appear to have no problems (although I personally haven't used it) so I guess you are ok.

Also, I've seen a lot of people recomment MOTU Digital Performer, might want to check that out.

Saludos,
Gustavo