Nord Plugin?

[pianoharri]

I'm not a Clavinet player, but I do appreciate the frustration of those who are, since the Nord clavinet sample was released in May, 2010 and never updated, now 16 years later.

But it begs a question...CAN it be updated? What is missing that could be there? Is it the quality of the sound reproductions? What other brands have a better Clav sample now?

I would ask the same questions about the Nord piano samples - what are the problems with the current ones?

[Ecaroh]

Let me remind you my original idea of ”Nord Plugin”:

I agree with you that there are tons of plugings and sample libraries already. Some of them are maybe better than Clavia’s and at least many are bigger and thus more detailed. So why the heck we would need Nord Plugin? IMO there are at least two reasons: first, digital instrument is combination of hardware (keyboard) and sounds, those two are matched together. And as a player you need to to learn to control and express your music with that instrument. I am sure that many of us have years of practise with their Nords. So if you wanna have the best piano track you won’t probably get it with random MIDI controller and random VST, no matter how good those are. You wanna make it with your instument which you know and play well. So Nord player would probbably want to use his Nord (keys+sound) for recording. Having plugin would make this just more straightforwar: a simple way to make keyboard tracks to DAW with your favorite keyboard and sounds. Second reason is related: if you had plugin you would have a chance review and compare different sounds more easily. Either with playing plugin with your Nord (manually) or listening to recorded MIDI tracks with different Nord sounds. I think we all have challenges to do that with hardware and its limited memory. Best sound for song for example is not allways the one you guess first hand. To me it would just great to have all those pianos available to listen and compare. And for live use this would help of course too - it’s not always easy to choose what is the best combination for your hardware memory.


P.S. All this been said I think Nord team should start with fixing MIDI to match 100% with their hardware behaviour. If you make this experiment: put Nord to local off and route midi from midi-out to midi-in again your Nord won’t play like hardware itself. For example it won’t have low velocity ”silent notes”. This indicates that Midi recording Nord isn’t accurate. I believe it’s related to triple sensor tech. I’ve said it thousand times: Nord team isn’t very competent with MIDI. It’s reason why I sold my NS4 after years of waiting..

[Gambold]

>I would ask the same questions about the Nord piano samples - what are the problems with the current ones?<

Well maybe "problems" is too harsh a word (I used "flaws" in my post). The Nord piano samples are the best in the biz, but as many have pointed out in this forum, some of the banner pianos have specific issues that probably could be corrected with a re-sampling with the newer technology available. Some examples from the Grands:

The Imperial. This is a Bosendorfer which is one of the great pianos of the world, and Nord's sample captures its distinctive and thunderous bass register. But the treble is thin, and many here have worked to improve it either through equalization or layering another piano on. Personally I think a newly sampled Bosie, with a treble register as strong as its bass one, could become the ultimate flagship grand for Nord.

The Grand Lady D. This Steinway is easily the best of the early samples, and for a long time it held a place of honor on Nord keyboards. But there's no XL version! For years we have clamored for one, and while Nord did provide a newer Steinway with the White Grand, it's from the smaller Model B. Americans in particular have a fondness for Steinways, and I think a new sample of the Model D would be hugely appreciated and enjoyed, and easily become the main acoustic board for many players.

The Italian. For a brief moment, this sample of the world-famous Fazioli was considered the premiere Nord Grand, a worthy competitor to the Imperial. But oh, how the mighty fell quickly. The Italian was only factory-loaded onto three Nords (Stage 2 and 3, Electro 5) after which it was dropped, never to return. No other "newer" Grand suffered this indignity...the Imperial, Royal, Velvet and White continue to be factory-loaded on Nord's keyboards with each new release. Why?

The Velvet. This Bluthner was the first German Grand to be released since the Imperial (between them was a Steinway, a Yamaha, a Fazioli and a Kawai). So as such it was well-seated to round the international character of Nord's grands, and provide a possible alternative to the Imperial. Unfortunately, this Grand was probably the most-maligned one out of the gate, with many complaining about its boxy sound. It's reputation has improved over time, and it's still loaded on every new Nord. But one can't help feeling that this one was so close, yet somehow missed the target.

[Gambold]

I didn't mention the Royal Grand 3D, likely taken from a Yamaha S6. This sample was highly-praised when it was released and for a long time was a favorite of players. It was an interesting experiment by Nord to provide a "headphones" experience - and at the time they promised in the description to release a "regular" sample of the Royal in the future. That never happened, and the Royal 3D eventually lost its flagship perch to the White Grand, based on a Model B Steinway.

The Royal has been called a bit dark and the 3D business is odd, but on the whole it's a solid sample that does what it promised, as are the White and the Bright, both of whom continue to be heavily used and are rarely criticized.

Credit and kudos as always to FZiegler who put together a hugely-useful resource on what pianos were used in the samples:

viewtopic.php?p=184186

[agcohn]

Something definitely improved in their sampling / processing techniques around the years 2013-2015. Having played the newest samples, I cannot really play anything older than the Grand Upright (2013) or Silver Grand (2015). There's just some presence missing from the older samples.

[Schorsch]

I like the Studio and the Bright a lot, but that’s in general a very subjective matter

[Gambold]

Of the old classics, the Studio Grand 2 and the Bright have held their own. The Studio Grand 2 has the distinction of being loaded on every single Nord keyboard from its creation to the present.

Yes, the sampling technology did take a leap in the mid-teens (as did the file sizes) which is why it would be really great if Nord could revisit important pianos like the Imperial, Italian, and Lady D and release new versions.

Their trend lately has been to seek out not-so-important pianos (Astoria, Pearl, Baby, Bambino) or trick out a Yamaha (Felt, Soft, Royal 3D) and sample those...that's fun but not what players need for their main boards. Continuing to rely on samples for the biggies that are 10-15 years old is wearing thin. The White has had to shoulder a lot of the Grand burden, and while it's fine sample, it's a smaller piano than those old classics.

Come on Nord, give us a spanking new Lady D! Give us an awesome new Bosendorfer! THOSE should be the true flagships of the fleet.

[Nordine]

Hi,

I believe Nord/Clavia could create a plugin, and it’s technically feasible. However, whether they should proceed largely depends on their strategic choices rather than just a technical issue. A software instrument plugin (VST3/AU/AAX) that replicates Nord’s piano sounds on a computer is definitely possible in theory. A plugin is essentially software that generates sound, responds to MIDI, and runs within a DAW. Nord already has extensive knowledge in sound engines, effects, and library management, so they aren’t starting from scratch. The challenge lies in adapting a hardware-focused system to a desktop plugin, which isn’t a straightforward copy-paste. It involves developing and maintaining a product across Windows/macOS, various DAWs, frequent OS updates, audio driver peculiarities, latency requirements, and long-term compatibility support. This ongoing maintenance and customer support can be a significant reason why hardware companies sometimes hesitate.

From your perspective, the advantages are quite evident. A Nord piano plugin would simplify playing and recording Nord pianos directly in a DAW, and it would be particularly beneficial for auditioning sounds without constantly deleting and reloading content on the keyboard. Your message points out exactly this challenge: Nord’s internal memory limitations make testing new sounds time-consuming, as you often need to remove existing pianos to make room, then download something new just to see if you like it. A plugin could allow you to browse, compare, and record, then decide later what you want to keep on the instrument. This workflow is genuinely practical and aligns with how modern producers and many keyboardists work.

But there are some valid reasons Nord might be a bit hesitant. Nord’s brand is all about those high-end stage instruments and their carefully selected piano sounds. If they released those sounds as a mass-market plugin, it might feel like they’re sharing their “best secret.” Plus, software can make piracy more likely, and it might change how exclusive (and how “hardware-focused”) the Nord experience feels. That’s why your idea of making the plugin or app only work if a Nord keyboard is connected is a pretty good compromise. It’s common in music tech to require hardware to authorize software, which helps protect intellectual property and keeps access to the library tied to owning a Nord.

I also mentioned that there are different versions of this idea, and some are more practical for Nord than others. The first step that’s most likely to work and be Nord-friendly isn’t necessarily a full piano plugin, but a strong “audition/preview” solution: a desktop app (or even a plugin-like tool) that lets users instantly listen to Nord pianos from the library, compare them quickly, and only then transfer the sounds they like to their keyboard. That would solve the “delete/download just to test” issue without risking Nord’s brand. Another related option is a DAW integration tool that uses the Nord hardware as the sound engine—meaning the DAW sends MIDI, audio is recorded back, and the software remembers the patches and settings. That would be a huge help for studio workflows, but it doesn’t completely eliminate the need to remember all the settings unless Nord also improves the auditioning process.

So, in summary, it tackles a real workflow problem and is technically possible. The biggest challenges are the business decisions (like how to position the brand, how much support they need, and how to protect their intellectual property from piracy). If Nord ever decides to explore this, a smart first step would likely be to start with an audition/preview workflow and maybe even DAW integration, and then only move toward a full plugin instrument if they think the benefits outweigh the risks.

[analogika]

a smart first step would likely be to start with an audition/preview workflow and maybe even DAW integration, and then only move toward a full plugin instrument if they think the benefits outweigh the risks.

The problem is that even just adding an audition/preview feature to NSM (in the sense of being able to play the sample via MIDI, without loading it into a Nord keyboard) would mean implementing the .npno/.nsmp decoding+playback algorithm in a computer software, which could then be easily decompiled/analyzed.

[analogika]

This is a very good observation, and mostly because it points out something that has proven to be true, despite predictions to the contrary - computers and software are not going to replace digital keyboards like Nords, Yamahas, Korgs and the like. They've had their chance, and the jury is back in - the majority of professional and amateur keyboard players are not satisfied with using a laptop stuffed with expensive software, a DAW and a midi keyboard as their go-to performance or practice model.

Each has its place. At a certain level, there will almost ALWAYS be a Mac running MainStage (not a DAW) in the mix, even if there are dedicated keyboards around, as well.

In musical productions, there may still be a Motif or two, but by far the de-facto standard is a redundant pair of racked Mac minis running MainStage.