Gain/Volume/Amp Question

[maxstout]

I play an Electro 5D. In the organ setting, in various live scenarios, I am experiencing unwanted distortion as I try to be heard. Our band is really not that loud.

I have tried all available resources but nearly all the information is directed toward guitar players, recording, and a set-up that includes a mixer (which I do not use).

Can anyone recommend the best way to achieve maximum volume without distortion? My confusion is the various combinations of the Gain knob on the Nord, the
Volume on the Nord, and the monitor amp volume knob?

Thanks!

[harmonizer]

It might matter what you are using for your monitor amp.
The line output signal on Nord Electro (and I think also the Stage) tends to have a lower signal than with some other keyboards.
And certain powered speakers (like the Electrovoice zx-a1 that I use) cannot reach the full potential loudness unless they receive a hotter signal than what the Nord sends.
But this is not a problem for me because I only use my Electrovoice zx-a1 as a stage monitor,
and we take a line out from the zx-a1 to the mixing board, and the audience at our gigs hears my keyboard sounds through the front-of-hall speakers.
But if I were using my zx-a1 to produce the keyboard sounds that the audience heard at our gigs, I would need to put some kind of small mixer in between my Nord keyboard and my zx-a1.

[maxstout]

Here’s a link to a general guide for gain staging. If you share the model of monitor you are using along with any other equipment in your signal chain, you may be able to get recommendations on specific settings.

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/gain-staging/

[maxstout]

It might matter what you are using for your monitor amp.
The line output signal on Nord Electro (and I think also the Stage) tends to have a lower signal than with some other keyboards.
And certain powered speakers (like the Electrovoice zx-a1 that I use) cannot reach the full potential loudness unless they receive a hotter signal than what the Nord sends.
But this is not a problem for me because I only use my Electrovoice zx-a1 as a stage monitor,
and we take a line out from the zx-a1 to the mixing board, and the audience at our gigs hears my keyboard sounds through the front-of-hall speakers.
But if I were using my zx-a1 to produce the keyboard sounds that the audience heard at our gigs, I would need to put some kind of small mixer in between my Nord keyboard and my zx-a1.

The most recent problem with a KC-500, just for a rehearsal, not for FOH. Should have been easily capable of handling the volume, I believe. So you're saying the Nord needs some kind of boost? Where do you set the gain on the Nord?

[maxstout]

Here’s a link to a general guide for gain staging. If you share the model of monitor you are using along with any other equipment in your signal chain, you may be able to get recommendations on specific settings.

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/gain-staging/

I see you have the Bose S1 Pro. I experienced distortion on that speaker while using it as a stage monitor, as well as on another occasion using a KC 500 in rehearsal.

Thank you for the sweetwater link but that is the kind of information I have found frustrating. A lot of discussion about preamps and mixers when I'm simply plugging into a keyboard amp or powered speaker. How do you suggest setting the gain on the Nord?

[maxpiano]

The Gain on NE5 is intended to normalize output across Programs, I would not recommend to use it as a general output boost.

I suggest to keep NE5 Master Volume at 75-80% (to leave some headroom for temporary boost) and then work on the KC input gain and master volume, to get the desired final sound level.

[FZiegler]

In the organ setting, in various live scenarios, I am experiencing unwanted distortion as I try to be heard.

I'm not a sound tech in any sort, just a piano player with moderate experience on digital keyboards. And found a way to be happy with my Nord sound by having plenty of headroom with my 2x QSC K8.2s (usually at around half volume, 75% volume on the Nord). Found that through the amp FAQ on this forum. There is no need to boost anything with that setup and I get along with the sound of my big band mates. As my playing is often in the background, I need the monitors quite close to my ears: on poles, directly behind me, about 1 m away; or I play with IEM to hear me better.

The organ sound has a vast field of volume levels - through drawbars and swell pedal. You don't tell where the problems occur. What about compressing your sound? Is your distortion digital clipping or something different? The internal digital level on the Electro 5 is set with the gain and the part-mix knob, while the volume knob seems to be some sort of analog pre-amplification. On my Stage 3, I didn't encounter problems with having my organ engines at full gain (via engine volume) with all drawbars out, but this might be different on the Electro 5.

I'm a little confused that you describe your problems occuring explicitely with organ sounds. If it was an issue with the monitors, I'd thought that first acoustic piano sounds would be a problem. But anyway: Are the monitors at their limit? Both solutions you mention are on the lower side of power in my eyes - the S1 reaching to 105 dB or the like (should be enough for organ and EP sounds) and a single KC-500 with its 150 W. What do you mean by your band not being that loud? Any guitars there? Any rock items?

Like others, I'd try to relieve my instrument by giving more signal to the amps - by putting an external preamp in between (mixer or single module). But if the monitors are already at their limit, you might need better boxes instead.

[maxstout]

The Gain on NE5 is intended to normalize output across Programs, I would not recommend to use it as a general output boost.

I suggest to keep NE5 Master Volume at 75-80% (to leave some headroom for temporary boost) and then work on the KC input gain and master volume, to get the desired final sound level.

OK, thanks, I see. If you were just playing drawbar organ (not a Program), is there a standard gain setting? If your Master Volume is 75%, where would you set the gain?

[maxstout]

In the organ setting, in various live scenarios, I am experiencing unwanted distortion as I try to be heard.

I'm not a sound tech in any sort, just a piano player with moderate experience on digital keyboards. And found a way to be happy with my Nord sound by having plenty of headroom with my 2x QSC K8.2s (usually at around half volume, 75% volume on the Nord). Found that through the amp FAQ on this forum. There is no need to boost anything with that setup and I get along with the sound of my big band mates. As my playing is often in the background, I need the monitors quite close to my ears: on poles, directly behind me, about 1 m away; or I play with IEM to hear me better.

The organ sound has a vast field of volume levels - through drawbars and swell pedal. You don't tell where the problems occur. What about compressing your sound? Is your distortion digital clipping or something different? The internal digital level on the Electro 5 is set with the gain and the part-mix knob, while the volume knob seems to be some sort of analog pre-amplification. On my Stage 3, I didn't encounter problems with having my organ engines at full gain (via engine volume) with all drawbars out, but this might be different on the Electro 5.

I'm a little confused that you describe your problems occuring explicitely with organ sounds. If it was an issue with the monitors, I'd thought that first acoustic piano sounds would be a problem. But anyway: Are the monitors at their limit? Both solutions you mention are on the lower side of power in my eyes - the S1 reaching to 105 dB or the like (should be enough for organ and EP sounds) and a single KC-500 with its 150 W. What do you mean by your band not being that loud? Any guitars there? Any rock items?

Like others, I'd try to relieve my instrument by giving more signal to the amps - by putting an external preamp in between (mixer or single module). But if the monitors are already at their limit, you might need better boxes instead.

Hi Thank you for this thorough answer. Great point about the problem only occurring with organ. That's true. The issue there is that the piano always cuts through the mix really well. I never feel like I have to crank it. The organ (mostly something like 888000034) just feels quieter so I'm always trying to get more volume. The band plays sort of 50's rockabilly oldies. It can get loud like any electric band but not heavy. Maybe it is just the monitors. I like the Bose because of its size (I'm in Manhattan) but maybe it's not up to the job. The KC-500 was the backline in a rehearsal room so I can't vouch for how it was set up. Like you said, I probably need more power. Thanks again.

[maxstout]

The Gain on NE5 is intended to normalize output across Programs, I would not recommend to use it as a general output boost.

I suggest to keep NE5 Master Volume at 75-80% (to leave some headroom for temporary boost) and then work on the KC input gain and master volume, to get the desired final sound level.

OK, thanks, I see. If you were just playing drawbar organ (not a Program), is there a standard gain setting? If your Master Volume is 75%, where would you set the gain?

Even when you play only the Organ section, you are always doing that as part of a Program or a Live Buffer on NE; Gain should be 9 or 10 (if you look at NE5 MIDI CC the Gain level is associated with MIDI CC7 = Volume so usually you want it max or almost).

Check also Gain settings in Factory Programs using only the Organ, they can be a good reference.