Nord at NAMM 2023

[cphollis]

FWIW the stages of a new Nord being announced:

- intense enthusiasm, curiosity and detail sharing
- disappointment when it's obvious that it is a logical progression of what came before
- faux outrage over cost, piano samples, etc. (Gambold's usual beef)
- grudging acceptance that the new one is much better and there are no real alternatives
- purchase of said new Nord
- sale of old one as it isn't worth the effort to maintain two libraries of patches

I am quite proud that I am now getting through this periodic event much faster and with a lot less stress than before.

[Amadrius]

FWIW the stages of a new Nord being announced:

- intense enthusiasm, curiosity and detail sharing
- disappointment when it's obvious that it is a logical progression of what came before
- faux outrage over cost, piano samples, etc. (Gambold's usual beef)
- grudging acceptance that the new one is much better and there are no real alternatives
- purchase of said new Nord
- sale of old one as it isn't worth the effort to maintain two libraries of patches

I am quite proud that I am now getting through this periodic event much faster and with a lot less stress than before.

Nailed it.

[Gambold]

- intense enthusiasm, curiosity and detail sharing
TRUE

- disappointment when it's obvious that it is a logical progression of what came before
TRUE

- faux outrage over cost, piano samples, etc. (Gambold's usual beef)
For me personally, I wouldn't call it outrage. More like irritation. And not really "faux," either.

- grudging acceptance that the new one is much better and there are no real alternatives
"Much better" is a reach. Not sure that many here think that about the Stage 4. Maybe "kind of better." And there are always alternatives.

- purchase of said new Nord
Depends on who. Lots of people are running to the Stage 3 during the fire sale after gawping at the 4's price and only "kind of better" features.

- sale of old one as it isn't worth the effort to maintain two libraries of patches
If you are silly with Nords, then yes, this is a consideration. Most of us just own/can afford one at a time.

[Gambold]

i mean, I don't want to keep beating this into the ground (really, Gambold? Cause you sure do go on...) but I was just on the Sweetwater site. I can't speak for what the prices are in Europe, but here the Stage 3 88 is now selling for $4200. The Stage 4 is selling for $5700. That is a $1500 difference, an almost 36% increase in price.

Sure, the Stage 3 is on clearance now, but if you are just stumbling into all this and shopping, does the Stage 4 REALLY have $1500 more going for it? We know the memory is the same. We know a lot of things are the same. So the differences, the new features and functions - for $1500 more? That buys a lot of sheetmusicplus downloads.

THIS is the nut of the issue. We can argue all day about what a small, family-run, hand-crafty business has to charge to stay profitable. But this just doesn't sit right when after years of waiting (I think six?) the new Stage is priced so much higher than what they are now asking for the old one, and yet is NOT a significant leap in technology or features. Forget about the console for a minute, and just look at the engineering. It still doesn't have USB audio! You still can't attach iOS to it! We won't even mention wireless.

There is a big WTF floating around all this and while we all love Nord and want to believe in the best for them, it's hard to not wonder...WTF.

[cphollis]

Just having some fun here -- In my world, the NS4 is arguably a major leap forward compared to my current NS3, the big ones being (1) elimination A/B split, and (2) individual section presets with FX. Just those two features alone can get me to the next level for what I want to do.

I was not wishing for new samples, more memory, or anything like that. I just what to use what's there more effectively. OK, a modern USB interface would have been nice.

When I bought the NS3Cs, there weren't any real alternatives from my perspective either. I'm looking forward to the progression!

[Gambold]

>the big ones being (1) elimination A/B split, and (2) individual section presets with FX. <

That's cool and I see that those are improvements. I'm just wondering if the cost/benefit of those really calls for a 36% increase over the previous model's current asking price.

And I think a major leap forward would call for something a little more impactful. Principally with how it integrates with current audio and computer tech. Nord is in danger of becoming charmingly old-fashioned, and while we all love the original Rhodes and Wurlis (and pay heavily for them), do we really want Nord to become an analog outlier?

[23skidoo]

I generally agree that a 36% increase in price for what is effectively a reorganization with some, but not much, in the way of real additional features (ok, another synth layer, whee) is ridiculous. I'm sure a big fraction of that increase is the direction the market is going: high end things are getting insanely expensive, the bottom is dropping out because the cheap manufacturing and chips are no longer as readily available, shipping prices are going up, and generally the global economy is becoming rather challenging. We're used to technology getting cheaper for a given level of performance, and since the new Nord isn't a 36% increase in "performance" in any meaningful sense, it doesn't really earn the new rate. So I'm quite sure that Nord is simply doing what nearly everybody else on the market is right now and is remixing things to justify a necessary price increase to keep (or increase, though I doubt that on the whole) their profit margins in the face of the economic headwinds du moment. And all that's not even considering the effects of inflation or anything, which is another layer depending on your local currency and politics.

You can look at it two ways:
1. Meh. It's a price increase hidden behind a thin veneer of improvement.
2. It's a price increase and they decided to actually give us *something* for it rather than just jack the price of the Stage 3.

From my point of view I think it's unfortunate that in-family (e.g. Stage 3 to 4, Electro 5 to 6, etc.) there isn't patch-transferability (at least from the older to the newer) - the vast changes in underlying composition of the instruments to me is a little schizophrenic, but if you're not a wedding singer you're probably doing new sets of your own or other people's music so you'd be creating new patches for your shows moving forward anyway and it's less of a big deal. If you are a wedding singer you usually have a fairly fixed but wide-ranging repertoire and it's no big deal to keep using the board you've been using as there's nothing in a Stage 3 that keeps you from playing great music.

So clearly the response from Nord with the Stage 4 is to show that they're not dead (but maybe not particularly innovative either), to move to different tech internally (to keep alignment between product lines - e.g. the Wave 2 synth, etc, and to try to align with part availability, most likely), and to offer a little something to justify / rationalize / give you a bit extra for a price increase that was unavoidable anyway.

Everybody's prices are going up - some faster than others, too. That's the tech world right now. Sometimes you get something for it. Sometimes (I'm looking at you, Moog, with your recent 15-25% increases), you don't. Sometimes they hide it by coming out with a "new" keyboard (*cough cough* Yamaha) that does the same things as other products but costs a decent chunk more for the repackaging. And so forth.

As long as there are enough somebodies willing to pay for the new thing, I don't see this trend slowing or reversing anytime soon.

[catosim]

i mean, I don't want to keep beating this into the ground (really, Gambold? Cause you sure do go on...)

[bclarkj]

Seriously? Are you posting the same outrage about grocery prices which are essentially inflating the past year and a half at same percentage or higher? This price increase isn’t in a vacuum. The world has moved on and EVERYTHING is going up significantly. The price doesn’t seem to bother a lot of folks or they’d just be sitting on the shelves right now. Seem to be moving pretty well from what I hear from Sweetwater and Guitar Center. Don’t buy one. That will show Clavia.

Look up cumulative inflation since just 2019. $4600 is now about $5500. Clavia employees have to keep up with costs too.

[cphollis]

And I am betting that the people who are complaining so much will likely find a way to buy one before long. Products like the NS4 are what are known as "luxury goods" in economics. No one really needs one, but they are very nice indeed!