How to deal with no cutoff filter on Piano/Electro?

[Jonek2208]

Hello,
I am planning to buy a stage piano in a upcoming months. Obviously, I take Nords into account. Right now on my broad candidates list I have NP5, NE6 and NS2X. In my local music store they have NP5 73. I played it for a 2 hours (btw. how the NP5 action compares to NE6/NS2X and Fatar TP100/LR?). Before going to the store I made some research on NP5 features and I saw that it has Bright/Soft filter on sample synth section. However when I tried it use it while playing, it cut the sound and the transition wasn't really smooth. I know, that I could use it with SSS, but this is barely the same as using two different sounds with pre-baked filters. The other possibility I see is to use different velocity curve, but this also doesn't allow to change sound brightness on the fly. The only two ways I see is to smartly use the EQ on sample synth section or use wah with pedal (but I am not sure how exactly wah works on Nords, so it probably won't work). From the competition, Yamaha CP73/88 has at least some tone filter, which doesn't change a lot but it allows for some sound alteration. On the other side CP's have global-only EQ, so the trick I mentioned before wouldn't work.
Why Nord cannot just put one additional knob and button on the panel, so the life would be easier?

Jon

[Elias]

Why Nord cannot just put one additional knob and button on the panel, so the life would be easier?

Hi Jon. Life would not necessarily be easier. A knob would give 100 options instead of 4, and Nord engineers decided to go for 4. And I think I like that. I see lots of reasons to give 100 options, but that is often not the Nord approach. There are huge numbers of alternative piano models to choose from. There are brighter, darker, louder, tamer, harder and softer pianos, and at least one of them will be good enough (if amplified correctly). So instead of EQ, you gan change the source.

With less options available, you have more time to spend with each one of them. I only use one grand piano as the core of my piano programs. This way I know exaclty what it will sound like, and there is no "tone" knob in the way.

P.S. I prefer to layer and detune various pianos instead of EQing them. This way I can be more consistent in the band mix.

[Jonek2208]

Why Nord cannot just put one additional knob and button on the panel, so the life would be easier?

Hi Jon. Life would not necessarily be easier. A knob would give 100 options instead of 4, and Nord engineers decided to go for 4. And I think I like that. I see lots of reasons to give 100 options, but that is often not the Nord approach. There are huge numbers of alternative piano models to choose from. There are brighter, darker, louder, tamer, harder and softer pianos, and at least one of them will be good enough (if amplified correctly). So instead of EQ, you gan change the source.

With less options available, you have more time to spend with each one of them. I only use one grand piano as the core of my piano programs. This way I know exaclty what it will sound like, and there is no "tone" knob in the way.

P.S. I prefer to layer and detune various pianos instead of EQing them. This way I can be more consistent in the band mix.

Oops, I think I messed up my post a little bit. For me the 4 options on Piano section are enough and totally fine.
The knob I meant was the cutoff filter on Sample Synth section. I just don't understand why they doesn't transfer that from the Stage series. Sometimes it is good to adjust the pad brightness while you are playing, e.g. you can make the pad more mellow on a calmer bridge or brighter when you approach the chorus. Apart from using it live it is just a nice feature to have, because you can achieve more from one sample, like you can get a nice mellow pad from any sound you have.

[Elias]

I guess I also did not read your original post too carefully...

The reason can be put simply: Nord Stage has a (simplified but) complete synthesizer engine, which includes all the basics. Nord Piano is a digital piano, and Nord Electro is an organ/piano hybrid more than it is a synthesizer. The newer ones all provide a "sample synth", but Nord engineers have to put the line somewhere between straight up sample playback and a synthesizer. In this case it ment sacrificing the filter cutoff control.

Lots of things would be nice to have, but restrictions can be desirable.

[Elias]

I have some synthsounds that I have sampled with Sample editor. I sample the sound in 3-4 versions with different filter settings. Then I make 3-4 programs on my Nord Electro 6 so I ”open up” the filter by changing program! With the seamles transition it work good enough!

[Ledbetter]

A wah wah pedal is actually a high pass filter. Try one.

[Elias]

A wah wah pedal is actually a high pass filter. Try one.

I'm quite sure they come in many types. Highpass, bandpass, lowpass, clean, distorted. Though I can't remember hearing one that does not cut high frequencies...

When you say "wah", your mouth roughly functions as a resonant low pass filter btw.

[maxpiano]

A wah wah pedal is actually a high pass filter. Try one.

I'm quite sure they come in many types. Highpass, bandpass, lowpass, clean, distorted. Though I can't remember hearing one that does not cut high frequencies...

When you say "wah", your mouth roughly functions as a resonant low pass filter btw.

The famous Dunplo "Cry Baby" is a bandpass actually, bu there are also some lowpass models (never heard of highpass ones but if there are I wouldn't call them "wha" any more, maybe just "Filter pedal")

[francelectro5]

i was very disappointed about nord piano 5, because is missing the FILTER in velocity of sample engine....
the sample section of any nord is already limited,
because of only 1 layer, same if buy electro or latest nord stage 3.
at least some sample can be more dynamic using velocity filter, even some electric piano.
so i really don't understand why this decision in the flagship piano

[maxpiano]

i was very disappointed about nord piano 5, because is missing the FILTER in velocity of sample engine....
the sample section of any nord is already limited,
because of only 1 layer, same if buy electro or latest nord stage 3.
at least some sample can be more dynamic using velocity filter, even some electric piano.
so i really don't understand why this decision in the flagship piano

From NP5 manual, Synth section chapter:

Dynamics
The DYNAMICS control determines the velocity response of the amplifier envelope (in effect the dynamic volume level) for the selected sample instrument.

With each Dynamics setting; 1, 2 and 3, the sample instrument has an increased dynamic range. When Dynamics is turned off, all velocity controlled parameters, including preset filter settings are deactivated.


So it sounds like the velocity control for the filter is defined in the "preset" setting of each NSMP v4, contrary to the Sample Synth on NE5/6 you cannot turn it on/off (but you can alter it with the SOFT/BRIGHT control) anyway it is there. Maybe you can try to create a user NSPM v4 and check how it works with different settings.