Overdrive and amps for Electro 5d organ

[Rootch]

Hello everyone,

to improve the organ sound of my Nord Eelctro 5d in our rehearsal room I'm planning to buy two Roland KC-400 (or KC-200) amps for the stereo rotary effect.

The internal Leslie simulation of the 5d is not bad. But I don't like the onboard distortion so I want to have a effect pedal. I was thinking about this:

Nord Electro 5d with onboard Leslie sim -> stereo into Electro Harmonix Operation Overlord overdrive -> each ouput cable into one Roland KC-400 amp

Now I've read that the distortion must be added before the Leslie sim. So I need a external Leslie simulation If a want to use a distortion pedal, right? If yes, how about this constellation?

Nord Electro 5d -> Lounsberry Pedals OGO-1 Organ Grinder -> NEO Instruments Ventilator II -> each ouput cable into one Roland KC-400 amp

Or is it worth to invest 210€ more and get the Tube Amp Manufactur Organ Drive? I'm not in need of a heavy distortion but I really want a good warm vintage Hammonnd B3 rock sound. Sometimes with distortion, sometimes not.

Do you think two Roland KC-400s (or 200s) are fine or rather two Roland Jazz Chorus?

Questions over questions...

Big thanks for your help!
Rootch

[anotherscott]

Whether distortion "must" be added before the Leslie sim is not an absolute, but yes, it is the more authentic way to go. Otherwise, the amount of distortion will "pulse."

If you're going to get the Ventilator as part of this project, I would say get that first. It has pretty good distortion, and you may find you don't need the separate distortion pedal after all. If you're not satisfied, then add the distortion pedal.

Instead of the pair of Roland amps, I'd look into the Aspen Pittman CPS Spacestation, either the V.3 (possibly with something extra for the deep bass) or the XL.

[Rootch]

Whether distortion "must" be added before the Leslie sim is not an absolute, but yes, it is the more authentic way to go. Otherwise, the amount of distortion will "pulse."

If you're going to get the Ventilator as part of this project, I would say get that first. It has pretty good distortion, and you may find you don't need the separate distortion pedal after all. If you're not satisfied, then add the distortion pedal.

Thanks for that info! Guess I'll try only the Ventilator first.

Instead of the pair of Roland amps, I'd look into the Aspen Pittman CPS Spacestation, either the V.3 (possibly with something extra for the deep bass) or the XL.

I already had a look on the Spacestations but unfortunately no one sells them in or sends them to Germany where I live. No matter if the company itself, Sweetwater or a guy from reverb.com.

[cphollis]

Given what you're trying to do -- e.g. create the perfect creamy organ sound -- just a couple of thoughts?

First, you're sort of limited on the Electro 5, as there's a single effects panel for drive, rotary, compression, etc. By comparison, on a Stage 3 you've got what looks like a leslie pre-amp drive, plus more of an independent power-amp style drive in the effects session, plus independent compression, plus some other sound-shaping stuff. That makes it a lot easier to approach the sounds you're looking for without external stuff. I just wanted to point out that you might not feel the need for external stuff, depending on which Nord you have.

You should really try to get your hands on a CPS SSv3 for this specific use case. It's really quite good at the creamy B3 sound w/leslie. If not, please consider a pair of recent self-powered 8" speakers on a pole. The Roland amp approach *could* work, but it would color your sound, beside being bulky, expensive. There are better choices out there!

[Rootch]

First, you're sort of limited on the Electro 5, as there's a single effects panel for drive, rotary, compression, etc. By comparison, on a Stage 3 you've got what looks like a leslie pre-amp drive, plus more of an independent power-amp style drive in the effects session, plus independent compression, plus some other sound-shaping stuff. That makes it a lot easier to approach the sounds you're looking for without external stuff. I just wanted to point out that you might not feel the need for external stuff, depending on which Nord you have.

Thanks for the input, but I guess selling my Electro 5d 61 for maybe 1.300€ and getting a Stage 3 Compact (I want that physical drawbars and semi weighted waterfall keys) for 3.000€ wouldn't satisfy me enough. I think the improvement is not worth paying 1.700€.

You should really try to get your hands on a CPS SSv3 for this specific use case. It's really quite good at the creamy B3 sound w/leslie. If not, please consider a pair of recent self-powered 8" speakers on a pole. The Roland amp approach *could* work, but it would color your sound, beside being bulky, expensive. There are better choices out there!

Because I couldn't find any option to buy a CPS SSv3 in or get it shipped to Germany I called Thomann. And guess what? They will put it on their shop again in 1-2 weeks and it will be in stock at the end of december. Sounds like something great to start the new year !

[anotherscott]

First, you're sort of limited on the Electro 5, as there's a single effects panel for drive, rotary, compression, etc. By comparison, on a Stage 3 you've got what looks like a leslie pre-amp drive, plus more of an independent power-amp style drive in the effects session, plus independent compression, plus some other sound-shaping stuff. That makes it a lot easier to approach the sounds you're looking for without external stuff. I just wanted to point out that you might not feel the need for external stuff, depending on which Nord you have.

Thanks for the input, but I guess selling my Electro 5d 61 for maybe 1.300€ and getting a Stage 3 Compact (I want that physical drawbars and semi weighted waterfall keys) for 3.000€ wouldn't satisfy me enough. I think the improvement is not worth paying 1.700€.

Actually, for organ alone, I would not switch from an E5 to the NS3, I think you probably lose more than you gain. While cphollis mentioned things you might gain, the E5 actually has numerous organ-specific advantages of its own. It has more settings for click level and "vintage" (leakage/crosstalk), switchable proper "drawbar robbing" for percussion, key bounce control, customizable percussion volume and decay times, and the B3+bass option.

And while sounds are subjective, whether it's because of those additional settings or not, I've seen numerous posts here saying they thought the E5 organ sounded better than the NS3 or E6 organs, while I don't remember seeing any posts that said the reverse, except maybe for people who complained that the E5 organ always has a small amount of distortion in it even when you have drive set all the way down, which I don't think happens on the NS3/E6. But from one conversation here, it sounded like even that E5 "flaw" only happened when the expression pedal was at max (or no expression pedal was connected at all, which I believe is sonically the same as expression pedal being at max), which makes me think it's not even a flaw if your goal is authenticity (because on a real tonewheel organ with the expression pedal at max, you always get a bit of distortion).

[Blueguitar007]

Hello Rootch

and first of all a very warm welcome to this wonderful forum of nord enthusiasts. I tried to imagine myself what kind of organ sound you‘re searching for. Some wellknown music pieces as an example would be nice. Furthermore it‘ll be helpful to know what kind of PA you have at your rehearsal room, if any.

In the meantime I can say that I love the sound of my NE5 organ, even when I cover Deep Purple live.

Cheers from the middle of Germany

[Blueguitar007]

Get a Fender tube amp or two, and ditch the Rolands and just use the built in Leslie function.
What's the fun of having other stuff plugged into your Electro when it's all right there on the panel.
Tube amps warm up the organ real good. Also the Rhodes.

[area51recording]

Yepper. Those Roland KC amps are trash.....

[wkrbee]

Lounsberry Tall and Fat and Organ Grinder gets you creamy to Deep Purple.