What is missing in Rhodes sampling of the Nord?

[JayDee]

Different strokes for different folks, but i don't quite understand the dislike for the Rhodes samples. I gigged a REAL 1973 MK 1 and did a ' Dyno' My Piano' Mod by a guy named Chuck Monte and hauled it up and down stairs, up in elevators, down the block when close load in was impossible etc, all over the San Francisco Bay Area and I am very satisfied with the Nord Rhodes samples. Perhaps some are comparing these samples to idealized virtual instruments, but for a guy with a sheistload of experience with the real thing, I am quite satisfied. Your experience may be different and is valid, but just sayin'....
'

[taglia74]

today there are also hardware, like crumar seven, that are more detailed. Or vst like pianoteq or reed200 for example that are few Mb (and not gigabyte) that are Rich of detail and dinamic. Nord sample are far from this and I think that they should do better then current.

Compared to sampling, there aren't so many people/companies in the world who can do successful piano or EP modeling, and those that do may have patents on what they're doing. I would not assume that Nord has the ability to take that approach.

Yes you are right. Nord just do it with hammond so maybe they have knowhow to do that also with Ep....

[taglia74]

Different strokes for different folks, but i don't quite understand the dislike for the Rhodes samples. I gigged a REAL 1973 MK 1 and did a ' Dyno' My Piano' Mod by a guy named Chuck Monte and hauled it up and down stairs, up in elevators, down the block when close load in was impossible etc, all over the San Francisco Bay Area and I am very satisfied with the Nord Rhodes samples. Perhaps some are comparing these samples to idealized virtual instruments, but for a guy with a sheistload of experience with the real thing, I am quite satisfied. Your experience may be different and is valid, but just sayin'....
'

Please take a listen to that
https://www.pianoteq.com/electric
And let me know if you feel difference than nord ep and wurli ;--)

[baekgaard]

Different strokes for different folks, but i don't quite understand the dislike for the Rhodes samples. I gigged a REAL 1973 MK 1 and did a ' Dyno' My Piano' Mod by a guy named Chuck Monte and hauled it up and down stairs, up in elevators, down the block when close load in was impossible etc, all over the San Francisco Bay Area and I am very satisfied with the Nord Rhodes samples. Perhaps some are comparing these samples to idealized virtual instruments, but for a guy with a sheistload of experience with the real thing, I am quite satisfied. Your experience may be different and is valid, but just sayin'....
'

Please take a listen to that
https://www.pianoteq.com/electric
And let me know if you feel difference than nord ep and wurli ;--)

Wasn't that exactly JayDee's point: The real instruments sound what they sound and not like the idealized version you hear in a modelled VST just like Pianoteq?

So they are different - but not necessarily more faithful or better, per se.

Or maybe I misunderstood your point?

[Mr_-G-]

Such comparisons are problematic. Taglia74 likes the pianoteq demos better than the EPs sounds in his/her NS2 (and that is perfectly fine), but I suspect that there might other things going on in the background.
A fair comparison would be with the pianoteq and the Nord, both in one's setup and using the same controller.
Despite that, there is also a problem comparing modelled instruments where you can tweak all sort of parameters to your liking (ending up with a beautiful sound of an instrument that does not or cannot exist) vs samples of a particular, real instrument with all its idiosyncrasies. The premises of sampled and modelled instruments are different and we should not forget them.
Sure, with a modelled instrument there is a different type of flexibility and perhaps that is the best way to get the sound one is after.

[taglia74]

Such comparisons are problematic. Taglia74 likes the pianoteq demos better than the EPs sounds in his/her NS2 (and that is perfectly fine), but I suspect that there might other things going on in the background.
A fair comparison would be with the pianoteq and the Nord, both in one's setup and using the same controller.
Despite that, there is also a problem comparing modelled instruments where you can tweak all sort of parameters to your liking (ending up with a beautiful sound of an instrument that does not or cannot exist) vs samples of a particular, real instrument with all its idiosyncrasies. The premises of sampled and modelled instruments are different and we should not forget them.
Sure, with a modelled instrument there is a different type of flexibility and perhaps that is the best way to get the sound one is after.

Yes. That's it. I feel pianoteq full of details that are not in nord ep. Also the wurli. I'm afraid from this because I dream to use only my ns3 but I'm not happy from nord ep. Before ns3 I've had rd2000 and I find rd2000 ep more detailed respect Nord ep. Yes nord ep are good, bot I think that compared with nord hammond or nord AP they are not at the same level and I'm afraid from this because I love EP and wurli sound.

[taglia74]

Different strokes for different folks, but i don't quite understand the dislike for the Rhodes samples. I gigged a REAL 1973 MK 1 and did a ' Dyno' My Piano' Mod by a guy named Chuck Monte and hauled it up and down stairs, up in elevators, down the block when close load in was impossible etc, all over the San Francisco Bay Area and I am very satisfied with the Nord Rhodes samples. Perhaps some are comparing these samples to idealized virtual instruments, but for a guy with a sheistload of experience with the real thing, I am quite satisfied. Your experience may be different and is valid, but just sayin'....
'

Please take a listen to that
https://www.pianoteq.com/electric
And let me know if you feel difference than nord ep and wurli ;--)

Wasn't that exactly JayDee's point: The real instruments sound what they sound and not like the idealized version you hear in a modelled VST just like Pianoteq?

So they are different - but not necessarily more faithful or better, per se.

Or maybe I misunderstood your point?

I Never say that pianoteq is necessary better. I love more details and I feel pianoteq full of that. Nord have a good sound for me but not the one I love best. Also the influence of dynamics in terms of response of pianoteq I like more than nord samples.
I hope that nord improve this aspect.

[baekgaard]

I Never say that pianoteq is necessary better. I love more details and I feel pianoteq full of that. Nord have a good sound for me but not the one I love best. Also the influence of dynamics in terms of response of pianoteq I like more than nord samples.
I hope that nord improve this aspect.

What are you using to play the Pianoteq sounds? I saw you earlier referred to a Roland board - is that what you use?

I think the Nord pianos can respond quite well to playing them, but it may require a bit of eq and effects to get there including adjustments to the KBD curve, as others also suggested. There are many layers on them - in some cases more than for some of the acoustic pianos (I measured them).

Check maybe some of the sample banks for ideas and inspiration.

Incidentally, I played a RD700NX with a NE3 on top for years - the Roland epiano sounds were horrible... others may disagree, of course!

[anotherscott]

Before ns3 I've had rd2000 and I find rd2000 ep more detailed

RD2000 has Roland's "SuperNatural" EP sounds, which incorporate modeling along the lines of what PIanoteq does.

Even if Nord were to pursue EP modeling in the future, that's not like loading new samples, i.e. it would not be compatible with current models. But at least the NS3 can easily run Pianoteq from an attached Mac/PC.

[taglia74]

Before ns3 I've had rd2000 and I find rd2000 ep more detailed

RD2000 has Roland's "SuperNatural" EP sounds, which incorporate modeling along the lines of what PIanoteq does.

Even if Nord were to pursue EP modeling in the future, that's not like loading new samples, i.e. it would not be compatible with current models. But at least the NS3 can easily run Pianoteq from an attached Mac/PC.

That's why I found rd2000 ep so detailed and expressive.
So I've to wait till ns4 to modelled Ep :--)