Settings for e-piano-sounds - chorus/tremolo/EQ

[uro-frank]

Hi guys,
I experiment with the e-pianos and don't get the soud like I am used to hear form the origin instruments (with earphones or with my own PA).
How could I preset these MK-V, Wurlitzer etc., that they sound nearly original?

I testet EQ-things, for example increase 4-5kHz, diminish bass and I experiment with chorus, tremolo etc.

I did read, that chorus should be used with about 4-8 Hz frequency, but the Nordstage 2 EX 88 shows Rate/Tempo 0-127. To which frequency does this correspond?

Does anybody have real good sounding settings for this e-pianos? I wold like to store this as a preset, and then to adjust it to the different PA/mixer situations on stage (this will be the job of the sound engineer on the mixer )

Thanks for help!

[Rusty Mike]

For the EQ, you should experiment with enhancing in the 1-2kHz area. You're currently shooting too high. The approach that I take is to turn the mid gain 75% of the way up, and then slowly sweep through the frequencies as I play until I find the sweet spot. Once I get to the frequency I want to bring out, I will dial down the gain until the sound is pleasing to me.

Note that the Nord EQ has a somewhat relational behavior; changing the low EQ will have some impact on the midrange, so your approach needs to be somewhat interactive. It's also important to realize that any of the amp sims will impact the EQ greatly. For EP. the Twin was a very popular amp to use, and automatically enhances some frequencies and attenuates others. So don't think that you create an ideal EQ setting outside the amp sim and then think it will work once you turn the sim on. I suggest you start with the amp sim on, and then EQ after that.

Another thing that I have found is that your EQ settings may need to be tweaked based on the room, PA, stage size, crowd, etc. Keep an open mind.

With regard to the other effects, let your ears be the judge - forget about the numbers. Listen on YouTube or recordings for the sounds you want to emulate and then try to match those. I don't think there is a right or wrong, it will be a matter of taste and very subjective.

[uro-frank]

O.k., interesting! I will try this. Seems, I was to high in the frequencies. But I did read, that the typical Sound of the E-Pianos is between 4-5 kHz.
I know, that it sounds completely different on different PA-systems and rooms, so my approach shall be to find a preset with the headphones, which is nearly neutral and good for me, and than to fine-adjust from mixer to mixer and room to room with the channel-EQ of the mixer, and not to adjust always on the Nordstage. I play on different PA's, so I need a basic preset stored in the Nordstage.

I find it difficult to hear the chorus or tremolo effects on records and to imitate on the Nordstage. What do you take for settings? Chorus 1 or 2, high rate or low, high amount or low. There is also a big difference between tremolo and chorus. In the moment I combine both, tremolo only a little bit, chorus more. But sometimes it sounds a little bit weird. I would be interested, how other people do their settings as a basic for my tries.
If I hear the Mark V sample or the Wurlitzer amped on the Nordstage homepage, it sounds fantastic! I never got such a sound. Perhaps this sound is not true (it is a fake?).
You must know, I am not a professional, just ambitious hobbie-player, who loves the sound of this vintage instruments, and I would be happie to get it more like this in the Nordstage...

[23skidoo]

The samples on the Nord site are taken directly from the instrument without further processing, and are often from a preset which is included or available for download. If you're not getting anywhere close to that sound straight out of your board, you might want to analyze what it is you're not hearing, and/or check the quality of your PA/headphones against what others are using who are hearing very similar things!

For me, my stage sounds pretty darn close to both what the site has and what I can hear on records.

If you say you find it difficult to hear the chorus or tremolo effects on records, though, that suggests your playback equipment might not be of the quality or fidelity necessary to really be doing a valid comparison anyway. Try playing your Nord through the same equipment you are listening to the records on, or vice versa, to see if one or the other playback systems provide radically different sounds. Also, be sure you know what you're listening for - if you're new to all this, trying to nail somebody else's sound will be hard if you don't know what it is about that sound that really makes it. Rusty Mike and CPHollis, among others here, *really* know their EPs and several people here on this forum actually own the EPs that the Nord has sampled and find the Nord to be quite faithful to the originals in nearly all respects (sometimes so faithful that it has confused people who do not have experience with the originals and think certain behaviour is a bug!). So, I suggest you do some troubleshooting and try to be really able to describe and understand how these sounds are put together and used, put some time into it and learn from the advice of people who play these things professionally, and of course, train your ears to understand what it is about the sound and the effects you're looking for.

[Rusty Mike]

But I did read, that the typical Sound of the E-Pianos is between 4-5 kHz.

Again you need to let your ears be the judge and not necessarily go by the numbers. Remember also that each EP is going to be affected differently by the EQ settings. The Mk 1 Deep doesn't have a lot of high end anyway, so cranking the treble probably won't get you much. The Brite Tines, on the other hand, will be greatly impacted by your treble setting, as well as how you adjust the midrange frequency and gain.

You should experiment with which sample comes closest to the sound you want, and then adjust from there. I personally like the Mk 1 Close Ideal, Mk II Shallow and Nefertiti. Your own tastes may tell you otherwise.

I find it difficult to hear the chorus or tremolo effects on records and to imitate on the Nordstage. What do you take for settings? Chorus 1 or 2, high rate or low, high amount or low. There is also a big difference between tremolo and chorus. In the moment I combine both, tremolo only a little bit, chorus more. But sometimes it sounds a little bit weird. I would be interested, how other people do their settings as a basic for my tries.

I prefer Chorus 2 for the EPs, and rarely use tremolo. I'm not a Wurlitzer fan. If you are in stereo, using the Pan and Chorus effects together on an EP is a nice sound. Don't overdo the amount or the rate.

If I hear the Mark V sample or the Wurlitzer amped on the Nordstage homepage, it sounds fantastic! I never got such a sound. Perhaps this sound is not true (it is a fake?).
You must know, I am not a professional, just ambitious hobbie-player, who loves the sound of this vintage instruments, and I would be happie to get it more like this in the Nordstage...

The sound you get will be greatly impacted by your audio system. Good quality studio monitors are important for the studio. And there are many amplification threads on this forum talking about how to get good sound for the stage.

[uro-frank]

After "testing" a lot I found following for me:

- EP 6 Sparkletop Vintage '67
- EP 5 Bright Tines
- EP 7 Tines Amped

I mostly increased the region about 4-6kHz (came back to this frequencies with the "sweeping"-method.The 1-2 kHz range should be a little bit reserved for the vocals in the band), a little bit treble increasing for more brilliance and about -5 bass decreasing. Medium compression, Dynamics 1. And I leaved the chorus and changed to "vibe". The chorus sounds to much frequency-changing to me, but this is my personal taste now...

So in the moment, it sounds alright for me. Of course, the whole thing depends on the speakersystem...

At home, I "only" have a small Yamaha MG12XU mixer and 2 dB Technologies Flexsys FM12 Monitors.
With the band, we have a Allen&Heath QU 16 with 2 RCF Evox 8 speakersystems.

So I have to live with this speaker-combinations at the moment... but do you have a good link for me, where good amplification proposals for the EP's are made? Perhaps this is real the reason for my "problems"...

[analogika]

Lots of recommendation threads for speakers and PA etc. in the accessories forum:

accessories-and-amplification-f8/

[uro-frank]

Thanks!!!

[Phun Tunes]

So in the moment, it sounds alright for me. Of course, the whole thing depends on the speakersystem...

At home, I "only" have a small Yamaha MG12XU mixer and 2 dB Technologies Flexsys FM12 Monitors.
With the band, we have a Allen&Heath QU 16 with 2 RCF Evox 8 speakersystems.

So I have to live with this speaker-combinations at the moment... but do you have a good link for me, where good amplification proposals for the EP's are made? Perhaps this is real the reason for my "problems"...

If you accurate or FRFR speakers are not currently in the budget, consider some accurate headphones. I use Audio-Technica ATH-M50x which are found in many studios almost a standard along with AKG k240's though the AKG's don't hold up as well. Use even for mixing in my studio comparing to my monitors. I also carry a pair when playing live keyboards or other instruments. Being able to isolate from the venue noise and have a fairly accurate sound can be a life-saver. One note: Do not use things like Beats headphones or earbuds. They are designed to boost specific frequencies, especially low-end are the opposite of accurate.
There are higher-end headphones even from AT & AKG and I also have a pair of Blue Mix-Fi's which are incredible but all probably over-kill for your use. The ATH-M40x's are cheaper than the 50's but will still be more accurate than your speakers.

The other reason for recommending headphones is your room. No matter what speakers you use, if your room is untreated acoustically then there will be issues and sound will be colored possibly significantly. Besides my studio my living room & bedroom I treated. The EQ section of Nords & mixers are limited so sometimes using them might fix one thing and cause issues for another. Same thing with adding time-based effects (reverb, delay, flange, phase, etc.) You multiply the effects with the acoustic effects of the room.

[Quai34]

+1 on rusty MIKE method.
I do manly covers so what I do is:
Listen to the song and try to isolate the E Piano.
Go thru each ones of the presets with no EQ no effects, no Amp Sim.
Choose the closer one.
Work on Chorus and tremolo, effect etc....I noticed that most of the time I use the same settings, quite slow, just to give a bit of an extra "shining" for the EP (unless the effect is a big part of the EP sound for that specific song...)
Switch several times to the 3 Amp Sim.
Decide on which one.... Or no Amp Sim but quite rare.
Work finally on EQ.
Re check if effects and Amo Sim haven't been too much far away from the recording.
THEN, and it's a big one, check with the other sounds I use for this song. Because, well, a sound for a song, even being a particular instrument has to be approach as a whole, like you do on a mix...
If it's layered with AP, it could change a lot, if it's Layeerd or played with pads or strings, it could change a lot etc....
So, back and forth a lot but always in this order and then, the workflow becomes an habit....
Ha yes, last thing, ask the other members of the band....when I play it and they say, "is that you or the recoding....? (Due to the disposition of the set up in the basement they can it see my hands...), I know that I'm spot on...
And finally (sorry for the long post...), listen carefully to the result with the band as a whole....I have few times came back to the "drawing board" to adjust it based on what we are capable of versus the recording, like vocals not being as much process as he recording or guitar using strong effects because they are the lead sound on that song and my effects muddy too much the general sound etc...
Being the sound guy helps as well....You learn how to think as sound design as a whole and not only for your instrument, I' sure Rusty Mike do the same when he finally plays with his big band....

As a conclusion, yes, use your ears, my band mates said that I have very good ears because I deal with the guitarist set up pedals, type of guitar, EQ etc and the bassist, even if I don't play bass or guitar, I come way close to the recording compared to them....The fact hat they use my pedalboards for bass and guitars, my 3 basses and 3 of my guitars helps as well...
Ok, maybe because I use the same approach too...