Do weighted Fatar keybeds feel different on Nords?

[Deleted User 31551]

Hello,

I've been reading a lot in this forum regarding the fatar keybeds. What's the deal with them?
Do we have any confirmation that there's any customization by Clavia's side or just a myth?

Cheers!

[FZiegler]

I think there is no proof that they'd be mechanically adapted. In any case the keys are calibrated by Clavia so that they all have the same velocity/response - that's how I understood this:

Why are you asking?

[Gambold]

They are generally regarded as craptastic but Clavia is clearly in for the long haul with them. If you want to spend top $$, you can get a Nord Grand, they use the Kawai keybed.

[Spider]

It's funny because when talking about synths and semi-weighted actions, FATAR is widely regarded to be the best manufacturer. When the specs say "This synth has a FATAR keybed" people usually go "Wooohhh!!!".

But yes, for hammer piano actions Yamaha and Kawai are usually considered superior ...not surprisingly, given that those companies are also among the world's best piano builders.

[afroskully]

so which manufacturer is thought of as having the best semi weighted keybeds, if not Fatar? I've never been overly impressed with the E2 or E5 keybed which I've been collectively playing for 12 years now, but it's good enough.

[anotherscott]

so which manufacturer is thought of as having the best semi weighted keybeds, if not Fatar? I've never been overly impressed with the E2 or E5 keybed which I've been collectively playing for 12 years now, but it's good enough.

It's always somewhat subjective. My favorite semi-weighted action at the moment is the one on the Vox Continental 61/73. I also like the one on the Kurzweil PC4-7 (despite the fact that it gets a stiffer toward the rear). The actions on the Roland Jupiter 50 and Jupiter 80 were very nice (though different from each other). Those are all actions I prefer to Nord's Fatar TP/8O. Although I haven't played them personally, the actions on the 61 and 76 key version of the Roland Fantom and Yamaha Montage are probably quite good, too.

[michael_C1]

Nords are unquestionably top notch instruments, but several times I’ve seen the opinion expressed that the Fatar TP40 and TP100 keybeds feel better on other instruments than they do on Nords that have the same actions, and I tend to agree.

I’ve had several different 88 note Nord Stage instruments and the TP40 keybeds on my Studiologic VMK88plus and SL990 controllers felt significantly better.

Likewise, but even more obvious, was the difference in feel (and noise level) between the Electro HP Nords I had and both my Arturia Keylab 88 and my Kurzweil Artis SE, all of which use the Fatar TP100 keybed.

I’m curious if others have noticed this, and if so, why do you think there’s a difference between Clavia’s implementation of these Fatar keybeds and that of other manufacturers? I have a theory about this, but I’d appreciate hearing other opinions first.

[michael_C1]

The Fatar TP80 action in my Korg CX3v2 and in my Numa Organ was terrific and about the best semi-weighted action I had ever played. The same action doesn't feel as good on my Electro 5D73, although it's not bad. And on my Hammond SK1 it was far less enjoyable to me personally.

As I understand it, it's all the same TP80 action, but the springs are different, and the lightest were the ones I liked the best. Unfortunately, Fatar doesn't sell replacement sets of different gauge springs or I'd swap out those in my Nord.

[MarkJames]

I've used a bunch of different Fatar actions. In my Ensoniq TS-12 dating to the 1990's it has the semi-weighted TP10 which has good feel but has various issues (clunking, weights falling off, etc.) I love the TP40 in the Piano 4 and the semi-weighted TP8 in the Stage 3 Compact and Wave 2. I've tried a TP9/S and it's fine but VERY light synth action for my taste.

[FZiegler]

I don't have any insights on the noise level of the keybeds built into instruments from different brands.

Concerning the reasons for different feeling of the Fatar keybeds on a Nord and in other brands, I see two possibilities:
1. There are different TP/40 available from Fatar: GH for graded weight and H, M or L for different touch feelings (95, 85 or 75 g trigger-weight). Then there is an option for a mechanical Escapement Touch Feeling kit. And I don't know if a TP/40Wood has another feeling. Which means, a Fatar TP/40 action won't always feel the same as it's not always the same. The palette of the TP/100 isn't as broad, as far as I know. But both underwent incremental improvements during time. In fact, there have been changes in key feeling been reported even on the same Nord model - between a newer and an older instrument. BTW, does anyone know what keybed the Piano 5 got? It feels a bit stiffer and at the same time somewhat softer than the Piano 4's.
2. If I sit at a piano, I have a certain awareness of different key actions, but in playing, I'll focus on the different relations between hitting a key and the sounding I get. There are expectations that make this relation between force and tone feel wrong or right. Which would even affect the same keybed being played with different sound engines. And which will lead to different feeling.

BTW I do understand why Nord implement a continuous, rather lightweight action on the Stage HA series (which I don't like while others do), but don't understand why they don't use graded hammer actions for the Piano/Grand series even if available from Fatar/Kawai.