Nord User Forum

This is the second time my drawbars have given me trouble...

A year ago, the 16' drawbar broke... when fully pulled out, the volume would gradually decrease...if I moved it again it then pop back in at full volume. As soon as I got the 4d 2 years ago, I immediately noticed how flimsy the drawbars are... not even real drawbars... just faders with drawbar tops on them. It was still under warranty, so I was able to get a loaner for the 3 MONTHS it took for the part to come in from Sweden.

A year later, it's happened again. Started with one, but now it seems to be most of them that are reacting like this. I don't use the 4D for anything BUT the organ... so now it's useless.

Now, I am an organ player. My left hand is on the drawbars most of the time I'm playing. And I gig lots. But for what I paid for this keyboard, it shouldn't be this unreliable.

Anyone else have drawbar issues with the 4D or C2D? I'm probably just going to fix it again and sell it due to it's unreliability.

Nobody else has encountered this problem, eh. Wonder if I just have a dud.

Could be many different things. Maybe your hand resting on the drawbars sweats and the humidity affects the fader, maybe you manhandle the drawbars too violently, maybe you gig too much , maybe you got a dud. Or a combination af all above?

shark wrote:Could be many different things. Maybe your hand resting on the drawbars sweats and the humidity affects the fader, maybe you manhandle the drawbars too violently, maybe you gig too much , maybe you got a dud. Or a combination af all above?

Shark, you raise an intriguing point about the possibility of heat/humidity possibly affecting the fader. IMO, I think this hand-resting constitutes a valid/typical use-case, so I agree with HEISHOLT that at this price the design ought to be immune to such degradation.

Has anyone got pictures of the "fader" used by Nord (from inside the chassis, --I know what they look like on the outside). If this fader uses a sliding potentiometer to encode position, the behaviour seen by HEISHOLT makes sense to me per this quote from the "potentiometer" entry at Wikipedia:

"Another type is the linear slider potentiometer, which has a wiper which slides along a linear element instead of rotating. Contamination can potentially enter anywhere along the slot the slider moves in, making effective sealing more difficult and compromising long-term reliability."

The behaviour described by HEISHOLT is consistent with misbehaviour I've seen on potentiometers in the past. I am interested to confirm what Nord used in their drawbars. --Maybe HEISHOLT got a part number from his previous repair experience...

Of course they are linear potentiometeres ("faders"), as in many (if not all) modern clones and also the OceanBeach MIDI drawbars.

The same faders are used in workstations such as Kronos, Motif, Kurz PC3K and in master keyboards (where they can also e used as drawbars) so I can't see an issue in Nord having done the same, whoch btw helps to keep the NE4 compact.

If the problem you report is not so common then maybe it has to do with something specific related either to your NE4 (an unlucky one with a bad set of faders?) or the way you use or store it. If it is out of warranty I would try first of all to clean teh faders with a Potentiometers Cleaner and/or having local Nord assistance (you can contact pablomastodon on this forum) check the board for possible faulty soldering.

Could it be cheaper and quicker to invest in the Ocean Beach draw bar unit? Asking, I don't know.

maxpiano wrote:Of course they are linear potentiometeres ("faders"), as in many (if not all) modern clones and also the OceanBeach MIDI drawbars.

Hi maxpiano,
There are many ways to sense linear position electronically: http://www.disensors.com/products.aspx?id=21 so I didn't assume the most common solution.

Some of the other methods avoid the weakness of a linear potentiometer (noted in my earlier post) so I wondered if Nord did something elegant and robust to provide this function or just simple and economical (linear potentiometers).

For reference purposes, since the time of the first release of a Nord instrument with these drawbars I have never had a single report of drawbar failure come my way through regular work channels. This is the first and only such report about which I have heard.

While it is true that a typical linear fader will have increased possibility of dirt infiltration as compared to a rotary pot, the world has seen these types of linear faders on mixing boards for decades, so clearly the basic design fundamental is widely accepted. I've never taken apart a genuine Hammond drawbar, but I have to think that they are essentially the same design as linear faders internally, although clearly the nature of that design shields the internal mechanism from dirt infiltration more efficiently. I am not privy to internal Nord decisions and not able to comment on specifics there, but having a hard time imagining how "true" drawbars could be integrated into the front panel of a Nord without getting in the way of the keys...

Pablo

pterm wrote:

maxpiano wrote:Of course they are linear potentiometeres ("faders"), as in many (if not all) modern clones and also the OceanBeach MIDI drawbars.

Hi maxpiano,
There are many ways to sense linear position electronically: http://www.disensors.com/products.aspx?id=21 so I didn't assume the most common solution.

Some of the other methods avoid the weakness of a linear potentiometer (noted in my earlier post) so I wondered if Nord did something elegant and robust to provide this function or just simple and economical (linear potentiometers).

I know that pterm, my "of course" was related to the observation that linear pots are the most typical solution used on modern electronic musical instruments (and having played the NE4D myself in a shop).

I have repaired a few master keyboard, even pretty old (I do those repairs as a hobby and to remind myself of my underutilized degree in electronics ) for faulty key contacts or other issues, but never observed any problem on their sliders, so personally I wouldn't blame Nord designers if they didn't consider a different solution, only because of (so far) one single case.

PS: of course, provided Nord uses on the NE4 a type/brand of linear pot with quality and durability specs in line with their name and pricing

pablomastodon wrote:I've never taken apart a genuine Hammond drawbar, but I have to think that they are essentially the same design as linear faders internally,

I think they might be a series of discrete contacts (the 8 shiny metal bars in the black box):
http://www.keyboardpartner.de/hammond/p ... wbars2.JPG
Perhaps that is more durable than the carbon tracks of the linear pots.