New to Nord, Home and Small Venue Amplification

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serranoayala
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New to Nord, Home and Small Venue Amplification

Post by serranoayala »

Hello!

It's my first electric keyboard after many years playing acoustic pianos. I'm super excited but also concerned about what it takes to experience the Nord Piano 5 the best. So, here are some questions for all of you!
  • Besides the obvious NORD monitors, what is your most recommended setup for excellent sound reproduction at home? I usually jam with another piano or acoustic instruments.
  • What do you recommend for a small venue? I mostly play with a soloist, or small choir, not many instruments around. It's more of a classical ensemble/music context.
  • Would you use the a PA at home? or better to have monitors at home?
  • Should I get two for stereo? at home and at gigs? I've heard it's important
  • Could you get all the "stereo" data with one speaker?
  • What do you think about the BOSE S1 Pro +? is it usable? for home and gigs.
  • What do you think about using 2 iLoud MTM? for home and small gigs.
Much appreciated everyone!!
catosim
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Re: New to Nord, Home and Small Venue Amplification

Post by catosim »

serranoayala wrote:Hello!

It's my first electric keyboard after many years playing acoustic pianos. I'm super excited but also concerned about what it takes to experience the Nord Piano 5 the best. So, here are some questions for all of you!
  • Besides the obvious NORD monitors, what is your most recommended setup for excellent sound reproduction at home? I usually jam with another piano or acoustic instruments.
I'd recommend QSC k8.2 with one sub in additional

  • What do you recommend for a small venue? I mostly play with a soloist, or small choir, not many instruments around. It's more of a classical ensemble/music context.
Same as above

  • Would you use the a PA at home? or better to have monitors at home?
Yes, that's what I do. But I also use a pair of CP8 at home (the K8.2 produce some fan-noise that can get annoying in "near-field" situations).

  • Should I get two for stereo? at home and at gigs? I've heard it's important
Yes, mono is less desirable

  • Could you get all the "stereo" data with one speaker?
No. It's not about data, it's physics.

  • What do you think about the BOSE S1 Pro +? is it usable? for home and gigs.
It's usable. In my opinion the Bose is a bit too much processed for my taste. I prefer the QSC

  • What do you think about using 2 iLoud MTM? for home and small gigs.
Don't know.

Much appreciated everyone!!
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Re: New to Nord, Home and Small Venue Amplification

Post by cphollis »

Same as above, but with some additional suggestions?

For acoustic piano and small combos in a quieter setting (e.g. not a full electric band) you may prefer a column-style pole array with a small sub at the bottom. Mine is a Bose L1 Model 1S, but there are several good ones on the market. The sound fills a small venue quite nicely, with lots of detail but it won't get very loud. Mono is fine, if you use the Nord mono function. If there is natural reverb in the venue (e.g. a microbrewery or similar), it'll be a very pleasing effect.

If you're playing out with louder drums, electric guitars, etc. the advice about the QSC K8s and a small sub is what I'd recommend as well.
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serranoayala
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Re: New to Nord, Home and Small Venue Amplification

Post by serranoayala »

cphollis wrote:Same as above, but with some additional suggestions?

For acoustic piano and small combos in a quieter setting (e.g. not a full electric band) you may prefer a column-style pole array with a small sub at the bottom. Mine is a Bose L1 Model 1S, but there are several good ones on the market. The sound fills a small venue quite nicely, with lots of detail but it won't get very loud. Mono is fine, if you use the Nord mono function. If there is natural reverb in the venue (e.g. a microbrewery or similar), it'll be a very pleasing effect.

If you're playing out with louder drums, electric guitars, etc. the advice about the QSC K8s and a small sub is what I'd recommend as well.
This is very insightful, thanks! I have a few more questions :)
  • Would you say the new Bose L1 Pro 8 is good enough too?
  • Do you use 1 or 2 of them?
  • If you're using just 1, do you connect L & R to the Bose??
  • Do you always use the Mono setting when using 1 speaker?
  • if you had to pick between 2 of the Bose S1 Pro + or 1 L1 Pro 8, what would be more adequate?
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serranoayala
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Re: New to Nord, Home and Small Venue Amplification

Post by serranoayala »

catosim wrote:
serranoayala wrote:Hello!

It's my first electric keyboard after many years playing acoustic pianos. I'm super excited but also concerned about what it takes to experience the Nord Piano 5 the best. So, here are some questions for all of you!
  • Besides the obvious NORD monitors, what is your most recommended setup for excellent sound reproduction at home? I usually jam with another piano or acoustic instruments.
I'd recommend QSC k8.2 with one sub in additional

  • What do you recommend for a small venue? I mostly play with a soloist, or small choir, not many instruments around. It's more of a classical ensemble/music context.
Same as above

  • Would you use the a PA at home? or better to have monitors at home?
Yes, that's what I do. But I also use a pair of CP8 at home (the K8.2 produce some fan-noise that can get annoying in "near-field" situations).

  • Should I get two for stereo? at home and at gigs? I've heard it's important
Yes, mono is less desirable

  • Could you get all the "stereo" data with one speaker?
No. It's not about data, it's physics.

  • What do you think about the BOSE S1 Pro +? is it usable? for home and gigs.
It's usable. In my opinion the Bose is a bit too much processed for my taste. I prefer the QSC

  • What do you think about using 2 iLoud MTM? for home and small gigs.
Don't know.

Much appreciated everyone!!
Thanks so much for all these answers! I have a few more questions
  • Do you use a sub at home too? with the CP8, or are these enough?
  • What do you think about the mono setting in the NORD?
  • If you're using just 1, do you connect L & R to the speaker?? or does it matter?
catosim
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Re: New to Nord, Home and Small Venue Amplification

Post by catosim »

serranoayala wrote:
  • Do you use a sub at home too? with the CP8, or are these enough?
  • What do you think about the mono setting in the NORD?
  • If you're using just 1, do you connect L & R to the speaker?? or does it matter?
Yes I use sub when playing at home, the sounding is way better with sub.

I don’t use the mono-setting, I always connect stereo.

If I (seldom) use a bose column speaker, I connect with stereo, even though the result is mono from the column.
Gear: Nord Stage 4, Nord Stage 3, Nord Lead A1, Ensoniq TS12, Roland D50, Roland D05, Roland JD08, Hammond A100, Hammond M100, Yamaha GT2, Yamaha Motif 6, Virus B
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cphollis
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Re: New to Nord, Home and Small Venue Amplification

Post by cphollis »

serranoayala wrote:
cphollis wrote:Same as above, but with some additional suggestions?

For acoustic piano and small combos in a quieter setting (e.g. not a full electric band) you may prefer a column-style pole array with a small sub at the bottom. Mine is a Bose L1 Model 1S, but there are several good ones on the market. The sound fills a small venue quite nicely, with lots of detail but it won't get very loud. Mono is fine, if you use the Nord mono function. If there is natural reverb in the venue (e.g. a microbrewery or similar), it'll be a very pleasing effect.

If you're playing out with louder drums, electric guitars, etc. the advice about the QSC K8s and a small sub is what I'd recommend as well.
This is very insightful, thanks! I have a few more questions :)
  • Would you say the new Bose L1 Pro 8 is good enough too?
  • Do you use 1 or 2 of them?
  • If you're using just 1, do you connect L & R to the Bose??
  • Do you always use the Mono setting when using 1 speaker?
  • if you had to pick between 2 of the Bose S1 Pro + or 1 L1 Pro 8, what would be more adequate?
The Pro 8 is aimed at singers playing a guitar in a restaurant or similar. They sound GREAT for a small unit, but there's no real mixer, it's not powerful, etc. I would consider the Bose L1 Pro 8 the entry point into the series, replacing the old Compact which was awful. I have not tried acoustic pianos through that specific unit, but they should sound great. It's better to have too much PA than not enough, so buy a bit more than you think you need.

Depending on venue size you might want to look at larger units with similar designs from EV, RCF and Turbosound. You're never going to be able to do anything larger than a small restaurant or patio with the Pro 8.

One unit is fine for acoustic acts. If you're playing on stage with, say, a choir or unamplified instruments, the "piano" sounds quite natural coming from a single source. Again, you're doing quieter stuff and not an electric band. The line driver array on top gives you a very wide dispersion angle, filling the room with a lovely, crisp sound.

I would find the S1 Pro completely inadequate for my purposes, more of a boombox for busking.

I use the Nord's mono setting to get a single channel. I play with two vocalists and a guitarist. Think seriously about a small mixer with FX (or use your laptop) for things like EQ, compression, reverb, delay as it will add a lot to a vocal performance (those FX are native to your Nord).

Many of the Nord's piano sounds are quite acceptable in mono. You can also grab only the R stereo channel (the treble one) and use that if you're going for a brighter sound, or the L channel if you prefer more bass. The idea with many of the piano samples is it weights left to right as you go up the keyboard.

Don't expect to get very loud or be able to project out to a larger audience though. With a big single-column unit, your max is about 50-100 people or so. Two units can handle twice that.

Disregard all of this for larger venues, playing with loud drums and guitars, etc.
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Re: New to Nord, Home and Small Venue Amplification

Post by Gambold »

>Disregard all of this for larger venues, playing with loud drums and guitars, etc.<

Indeed. For larger venues, which actually means anything over a small room with about two dozen people, you will need to go into the PA and monitor either through in-ears or your own speaker, pointed back at you. That, or bring your own mixing board and PA on poles, which neither your band nor the sound guy will be happy about - and it's a lot of gear to lug in, and takes up precious stage space.

This is all because powered speakers were never made to replace instrument amplifiers, even though the keyboard community is now treating them as such. But even the best QSC or Bose powered speaker will never carry over electric guitars and drums. I've tried it, many times. The only way your beloved speaker pair will carry is if you have two of them on poles, mixed independently by you and generously db boosted - and we are back to a separate PA system for the keyboard player, which no-one wants. It sounds great, but are you getting paid enough to drag all that stuff in?

So what to do? What everyone used to do. Go into the house PA, or use an amplifier like a Fender Twin or a Roland 600. If you use an amp, everything will carry over the band with ease (this one goes to 11), and it will all sound great EXCEPT the acoustic keyboard. Back in the good old days, everyone played real acoustic keyboards on stage. There were no fake, excuse me, digital ones. And this is our trap. We have these wonderful acoustic samples, meticulously crafted by the gnomes at Nord, but no easy, portable way to amplify them that doesn't sound terrible or is too quiet for a full band performance.
Last edited by Gambold on 13 Mar 2024, 16:24, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: New to Nord, Home and Small Venue Amplification

Post by Gambold »

I should add that we are not alone. It doesn't matter what brand board you play - any digital keyboard is going to sound like crap if playing acoustic samples through a Class C amplifier. Yes, you can get all rich and creamy if you are playing in a tea room - then you can pull out the QSC that everyone swears by (I have one too). But for pop, dance, or rock and roll in a room any bigger than your Mom's 1970s den, forget about it. You need the house or you need a big fat ugly amplifier.

All the pros know this. That's why you never see keyboard amps or powered speakers on stage, no matter where they are playing. No one is bringing in their own speakers on poles and running a private mixer. And no one is trundling in some giant Roland keyboard amp, charming as those may be to us nostalgists. Those bands with keyboards that you see on Saturday Night Live...there's not a Quilter in sight, all the keys are pumped through the mains. And that's for an indoor venue that seats a max of 300 people, with no bar noise. If you are playing a rib fest outside on a country fair stage, everyone will be listening to your guitar player wail through his Fender Hot Rod while your Bose pair with subwoofer will sound like a fart in a hailstorm. You'll need to either have your own Fender amp at the ready and accept that your acoustic piano has no low end, or...do what the pros do, give in to the dark side and let the sound guy have his way with you in his PA.

My advice: spend your money on the best in-ears system you can afford. Buy a nice little speaker for family holidays or when you play at Potbelly's. But don't blow thousands on powered speakers. Buy another keyboard instead.
Last edited by Gambold on 13 Mar 2024, 20:00, edited 4 times in total.
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