Everything about the Nord Piano, Nord Piano 2, Nord Piano 3, Nord Piano 4, Nord Piano 5, and the Nord Grand.

MIDI Implementation NP5

Postby YaNolan » 08 Feb 2024, 13:32

Dear Nord friends.
Thanks for this forum.

I have a very technical question regarding MIDI implementation of the NP5.
With the help of a MIDI logger I found out the MIDI CC number and CC value of every button/knob of the NP5.
First of all I see discrepancies between the user manual MIDI implementation chart and the real MIDI messages sent by NP5.

I want to use the fantastic haptic hardware interface of the NP5 to
remote control MainStage on my Apple Notebook.
Typically I wanted to use the Piano Layer and Sample Layer On/Off buttons to turn on or off (unmute or mute) different AU instruments in MainStage.
According to the NP5 user manual (OS version: 1.2x, Edition: D) page 27, the MIDI implementation chart shows:
Piano layer A on/off: MIDI CC# 33
Piano layer B on/off:MIDI CC# 37
But in reality NP5 sends :
Piano layer A:
on: MIDI CC# 33 Value 43
off: MIDI CC# 33 Value 0
Piano layer B:
on: MIDI CC# 33 Value 85
off: MIDI CC# 33 Value 0
Same inconsistency is sent for sample synth:
layer A:
on: MIDI CC# 42 Value 43
off: MIDI CC# 42 Value 0
layer B:
on: MIDI CC# 42 Value 85
off: MIDI CC# 42 Value 0
With this MIDI implementation it is impossible to use the 2 buttons to send MIDI off.
Whenever you turn one of the 2 buttons A or B off, it turns also the other off (=> because both are sending value 0 on the same CC# 33 or 42).
Only MIDI On can be differentiated (A On, sends value 43 while B on sends value 85 for CC number # 33 or 42)
Are you guys aware of this bug?
Do you experience the same MIDI CCs and values?
Does anybody of you know any work around?
My NP5 is Rev B and I'm on the latest OS version 1.24.
I've contacted Nord support but didn't get any answer.

Thanks for any feedback.
YaNolan
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 21 Oct 2023, 12:37
Country: Mauritius
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Piano 5

MIDI Implementation NP5


Sponsor
 

Re: MIDI Implementation NP5

Postby FZiegler » 08 Feb 2024, 16:37

Hi, I don't have a NP5, so I can't test or verify. But I wonder.

Does CC#42=85 mean that Synth layer B is switched on while layer A is left as it is or does it mean that layer B is switched on while layer A is disabled at the same time? Would CC#42=127 mean that both layers are activated at the same time? Does CC#42=0 mean that one arbitrary layer is disabled or is it both layers that are disabled then?

Or to ask in a sense that's more focussed on your needs: Does hitting a layer on/off button mean it always sends the same value independently from the status of the other layer?
Stage 3 Compact (Rev.B 2.1 - OS 2.60) - Kawai VPC1 / Yamaha CP33 - Hall of Fame & NeoVent2 - Behringer Flow-8 - K&M stands 18820+18811 / 18953+18952 - Samsung tablet with MobileSheetsPro & AirTurn Duo200 - QSC K8.2s / Fischer InEars
User avatar
FZiegler
Donator
 
Posts: 2317
Joined: 15 Dec 2019, 02:41
Location: Germany south-west
Country: Germany
Has thanked: 614 times
Been thanked: 777 times
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Stage 3

Re: MIDI Implementation NP5

Postby YaNolan » 09 Feb 2024, 10:01

FZiegler wrote:Hi, I don't have a NP5, so I can't test or verify. But I wonder.

Does CC#42=85 mean that Synth layer B is switched on while layer A is left as it is or does it mean that layer B is switched on while layer A is disabled at the same time? Would CC#42=127 mean that both layers are activated at the same time? Does CC#42=0 mean that one arbitrary layer is disabled or is it both layers that are disabled then?

Or to ask in a sense that's more focussed on your needs: Does hitting a layer on/off button mean it always sends the same value independently from the status of the other layer?


Hi FZiegler.
Thanks for the question/hint.
I logged again the MIDI messages and found one additional message sent when you switch from Piano A to B or B to A.
In this case the following additional message is sent: CC#37 127 (B is active), followed by CC#33 85 (turn on B).
When switching from B to A, message CC#37 0 (A is active), followed by CC#33 43 (turn on A) are sent.
Once a Panel is active, e.g. A, whenever I press A again, it turns off A and CC#33 0 is sent.
When both panels are active, selecting e.g. A (=> A blinks and is active for editing), then only CC#37 0 (A is active) is sent.
Both active, and pressing B ((=> B blinks and is active for editing), then CC#37 127 is sent.
Turn on both A and B panes on, by pressing both buttons simultaneously, 3 messages are sent:
CC#37, 0 (A active)
CC#33, 43 (turn on A)
CC#33, 127 (???)

Turn off both A and B panes on, by pressing both buttons simultaneously, 3 messages are sent:
CC#37, 127 (B active)
CC#33, 85 (turn on A???)
CC#33, 0 (turn both off)

I think the outcome is that you also have to track the panel switch message (CC#37 0 or CC#37 127) and store the active panel (A or B).
Whenever you receive CC#33, 0, knowing which panel is active, you turn off only that one panel off and not the other one.
I think that this is difficult (if not impossible) to implement in MainStage.
Anyway, thanks for the hint.
YaNolan
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 21 Oct 2023, 12:37
Country: Mauritius
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Piano 5

Re: MIDI Implementation NP5

Postby maxpiano » 09 Feb 2024, 14:58

To me this looks like a bug, the specs indicate a distinct CC for Piano A/B on/off (and an on-off in MIDI standard should be 0-127), I suggest to open a support ticket to Nord via their web site. If it is not a bug then tehy should at least document it better in the manual (values vs meaning/conditions, when not standard)
Last edited by maxpiano on 09 Feb 2024, 16:27, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
maxpiano
Patch Creator
 
Posts: 6129
Joined: 27 Jun 2011, 13:29
Location: Italy
Country: Italy
Has thanked: 437 times
Been thanked: 2160 times
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Stage 3

Re: MIDI Implementation NP5

Postby FZiegler » 09 Feb 2024, 17:20

To sum your findings up, it seems like the commands sent are very much related to the panel logic on your NP5 and not so easy to use for controlling completely different software instruments.
Stage 3 Compact (Rev.B 2.1 - OS 2.60) - Kawai VPC1 / Yamaha CP33 - Hall of Fame & NeoVent2 - Behringer Flow-8 - K&M stands 18820+18811 / 18953+18952 - Samsung tablet with MobileSheetsPro & AirTurn Duo200 - QSC K8.2s / Fischer InEars
User avatar
FZiegler
Donator
 
Posts: 2317
Joined: 15 Dec 2019, 02:41
Location: Germany south-west
Country: Germany
Has thanked: 614 times
Been thanked: 777 times
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Stage 3

Re: MIDI Implementation NP5

Postby YaNolan » 09 Feb 2024, 18:33

maxpiano wrote:To me this looks like a bug, the specs indicate a distinct CC for Piano A/B on/off (and an on-off in MIDI standard should be 0-127), I suggest to open a support ticket to Nord via their web site. If it is not a bug then tehy should at least document it better in the manual (values vs meaning/conditions, when not standard)

I agree.
I reported it as bug to Nord. No answer.
I wanted to know if somebody in this forum had the same experience.
YaNolan
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 21 Oct 2023, 12:37
Country: Mauritius
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Piano 5

Re: MIDI Implementation NP5

Postby YaNolan » 09 Feb 2024, 18:35

FZiegler wrote:To sum your findings up, it seems like the commands sent are very much related to the panel logic on your NP5 and not so easy to use for controlling completely different software instruments.

Yep.
It's a pity.
YaNolan
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 21 Oct 2023, 12:37
Country: Mauritius
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Piano 5

Re: MIDI Implementation NP5

Postby Suavek » 12 Feb 2024, 15:25

I recently played few midi music files on my NP5 and found some turn on bunch of effects causing instrument sound distorted. I have to manually turn effects off before start playing. Haven't debugged it with midi sniffer but definitely will next.
Suavek
 
Posts: 13
Joined: 31 Jan 2024, 08:04
Country: United States of America
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 2 times
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Piano 5


Return to Nord Piano / Grand Forum



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests