Nord User Forum

I want to obtain a Stage 2 76 (either HA or HP).

I wish they had chosen slightly different notes to lose vs 88. The bass on the 76 ends on the E and I often use the C below, whereas the top end could happily lose some notes. It's personal preference I know.

Anyway this means that in use, I will transpose everything down one octave so that I get that bottom C (and more besides obviously). I will still have enough headroom at the top.

So - what of the split points - will they move with the transposition or are they fixed physical points?

Thanks.

Split points are fixed physical points on the keyboard except in the case where split points are placed in a synth sample - the points move with the transposition.

WannitBBBad wrote:Split points are fixed physical points on the keyboard except in the case where split points are placed in a synth sample - the points move with the transposition.

Thankyou.

Exposing my lack of understanding, that sound like both a No and a Yes.

So - if I want Piano across the whole keybed, Pad in the centre section only and Bass guitar in the lower section only, will I be able to do that with split points that are moved with the transposition?

Side note - I don't understand why you can't just define a key range for each layer as I can on my current Kawai MP7SE. Is this where Nord is not quite as flexible?

The Nord policy is: For playing on stage, you should be able to see where a split is set. So they have 2 points per octave where a split can be set and is shown by a small red LED. That's why Nord is not quite as flexible - and there are a few other points you may encounter if you compare it to what you know from another brand's product (synth samples with only one layer etc.).

The good news is that you can do what you described as example - if you use both panel A/B. But of course, the restricted number of split points uses the key range up a little faster.

I'm not sure about what WannitBBBad meant by 'split points in a synth sample' - but given he is a frequent sample producer (you can easily create your own synth samples) he probably means a sample you created yourself that already consists of multiple totally different sounds spread over the key range. That would be a way to be more flexible - if a single velocity layer sound is OK.

WP63C wrote:I want to obtain a Stage 2 76 (either HA or HP).

I wish they had chosen slightly different notes to lose vs 88. The bass on the 76 ends on the E and I often use the C below, whereas the top end could happily lose some notes. It's personal preference I know.

Anyway this means that in use, I will transpose everything down one octave so that I get that bottom C (and more besides obviously). I will still have enough headroom at the top.

So - what of the split points - will they move with the transposition or are they fixed physical points?

Thanks.

Split points are related to the physical keyboard and as such they are not influenced by the Octave of the Section(s) assigned to each zone, as in all other instruments (How could they? What would be the logic otherwise if you would layer 2 sections with different octaves on the same zone?)

Thankyou everyone - that's all really helpful.

After looking further about split points and overlaps it seems that it's the Stage 3 that would suit best....

WP63C wrote:

WannitBBBad wrote:Split points are fixed physical points on the keyboard except in the case where split points are placed in a synth sample - the points move with the transposition.

Thankyou.

Exposing my lack of understanding, that sound like both a No and a Yes...

Sorry, I was in a hurry with my last response. First, welcome to the Forum! Second, as you've found out, the split points are physically laid out on the keyboard, so if you choose C4 for a split point for example, it remains there no matter if you transpose an organ, piano, or synth by an octave or more, or the entire keyboard by a semitone or more. However if you loaded a synth sample with a defined split between two sampled sounds at C4, that split of the sampled sounds would move to C#4 if you transposed down a semitone, but the assigned split point of C4 for the organ, piano, and/or synth sections would remain. You probably didn't need that additional info for your question, but in creating samples with multiple sounds across the keyboard (very easy with the Nord Sample Editor), one has to know if the sample will be played in the regular key, or transposed up or down a semitone or two. I end up creating two or three versions of some samples for that reason. Good luck to you!

Update: As you mentioned the possibility of purchasing a Stage 3, I would definitely encourage it. Nord added some great features to the Stage 3 that are well worth the plunge.

WannitBBBad wrote:

WP63C wrote:

WannitBBBad wrote:Split points are fixed physical points on the keyboard except in the case where split points are placed in a synth sample - the points move with the transposition.

Thankyou.

Exposing my lack of understanding, that sound like both a No and a Yes...

Sorry, I was in a hurry with my last response. First, welcome to the Forum! Second, as you've found out, the split points are physically laid out on the keyboard, so if you choose C4 for a split point for example, it remains there no matter if you transpose an organ, piano, or synth by an octave or more, or the entire keyboard by a semitone or more. However if you loaded a synth sample with a defined split between two sampled sounds at C4, that split of the sampled sounds would move to C#4 if you transposed down a semitone, but the assigned split point of C4 for the organ, piano, and/or synth sections would remain. You probably didn't need that additional info for your question, but in creating samples with multiple sounds across the keyboard (very easy with the Nord Sample Editor), one has to know if the sample will be played in the regular key, or transposed up or down a semitone or two. I end up creating two or three versions of some samples for that reason. Good luck to you!

Update: As you mentioned the possibility of purchasing a Stage 3, I would definitely encourage it. Nord added some great features to the Stage 3 that are well worth the plunge.

Thanks again - The whole sampling thing is still a mystery to me but I'll look forward to getting into it.

maxpiano wrote: Split points are related to the physical keyboard and as such they are not influenced by the Octave of the Section(s) assigned to each zone, as in all other instruments (How could they? What would be the logic otherwise if you would layer 2 sections with different octaves on the same zone?)

I'm not sure what you're getting at with that last question, but not "all other instruments" behave as you're describing. Some Yamaha keyboards, at least, do move the split points when you use their transpose/octave buttons. It's a nuisance. Luckily they do provide another way to shift the pitches of the notes without changing split points, but it's not as convenient, and there's no single function that will appropriately change the pitch (without changing split point) simultaneously for internal and external sounds.

The reason it happens is that Yamaha's "transpose" function works by changing the MIDI note. So if you have a split set up where MIDI Note 60 (middle C) is a piano and 61 (C#) is a violin, and you hit the transpose up button, hitting middle C will now generate MIDI note 61 instead of MIDI note 60. As long as 60 and 61 are set for the same sound, it works just as you'd expect. But since we made 61 a violin sound, hitting the middle C (now triggering 61 rather than 60) will give you the C# you want, but it will be a violin sound instead of a piano sound. IOW, from the player's perspective, the split point has moved (though from a MIDI perspective, it has not).

There actually can be a benefit to this... you can do an octave transpose to get to keys that are outside of the range of your keyboard, and you can program a different sound for those keys, and so "transpose" becomes an alternate way to switch sounds in the middle of a song, even while continuing to play the same sound you were playing on another part of the keyboard (though that part will also be shifted in location). It can be a useful function, but it's not typically what people want a transpose function for.

anotherscott wrote:

maxpiano wrote: Split points are related to the physical keyboard and as such they are not influenced by the Octave of the Section(s) assigned to each zone, as in all other instruments (How could they? What would be the logic otherwise if you would layer 2 sections with different octaves on the same zone?)

I'm not sure what you're getting at with that last question, but not "all other instruments" behave as you're describing. Some Yamaha keyboards, at least, do move the split points when you use their transpose/octave buttons. It's a nuisance. Luckily they do provide another way to shift the pitches of the notes without changing split points, but it's not as convenient, and there's no single function that will appropriately change the pitch (without changing split point) simultaneously for internal and external sounds.

The reason it happens is that Yamaha's "transpose" function works by changing the MIDI note. So if you have a split set up where MIDI Note 60 (middle C) is a piano and 61 (C#) is a violin, and you hit the transpose up button, hitting middle C will now generate MIDI note 61 instead of MIDI note 60. As long as 60 and 61 are set for the same sound, it works just as you'd expect. But since we made 61 a violin sound, hitting the middle C (now triggering 61 rather than 60) will give you the C# you want, but it will be a violin sound instead of a piano sound. IOW, from the player's perspective, the split point has moved (though from a MIDI perspective, it has not).

There actually can be a benefit to this... you can do an octave transpose to get to keys that are outside of the range of your keyboard, and you can program a different sound for those keys, and so "transpose" becomes an alternate way to switch sounds in the middle of a song, even while continuing to play the same sound you were playing on another part of the keyboard (though that part will also be shifted in location). It can be a useful function, but it's not typically what people want a transpose function for.

That's all fine anotherscott, but here the topic was on transposing by Octaves of a single Section being part of a split/zone arrangement, not transposing the whole keyboard (which is the case you describe).

To make an analogy, if we could break the Nord Stage apart and consider the keyboard as a MIDI master and the Sections as slaves/expanders, splits are defined on the master while Octave up/down act on the expanders/slaves side only. In the Yamaha example you are transposing the master instead.