Nord User Forum

anotherscott wrote:Everything looks like a no-brainer until you're the engineer trying to do it.

this ^^^

I don't understand why people assume manufacturers aren't working within constraints.

The likes of Roland and Yamaha design and fabricate their own silicon. They're literally chip manufacturers, as well as everything else. Nord are minnows by comparison. They have to commit to a hardware platform for years. The chips in this Stage 4 were probably costed, procurred and ordered early in the product cycle of the Stage 3. They're probably making decisions about the Stage 5 now, and when it appears in 6 years time it'll be 6 years out of date, if you compare it to PC or phone memory. PCs and phones sell in their millions. Manufacturers can afford to switch up frequently and the companies that design the hardware chase them. Nobody's chasing Nord.

This is why Apple ditched Intel, but Apple could afford to.

Price wise, some of you need to take into account a worldwide panic that caused decreased revenues and massive inflation.

I’m looking forward to hearing how intuitively this KB plays live with the changes!

spalding12 wrote: but it's still infinitely cheaper than it was six years ago

Sure, but Nord aren't buying the memory for the Stage 4 NOW. It was costed, procurred, ordered, figured into manufacturing and development some years ago.

For smaller companies without bargaining power, without economies of scale, who can't gamble on component availability etc - you have to see cost as retrospective.

Do we think the “Prog View” button on the Stage 4 will work like the Category Search on the Stage 2?
That’s a feature I use all the time to search programs alphabetically and it would be great if that’s what this is.

analogika wrote:

spalding12 wrote:has anybody seen the comparison they put up on their own website about the stage 3 and stage 4?
It's hysterical
six years of wait for the few changes that they even admit themselves
forget about the price increase
but the fact that they had the nerve to put up that comparison which showed that they basically have done little to nothing in six years when it comes to something electronic
in this era
crazy

Check out the comparison they put up between the Stage 2 and Stage 3. Hysterical:

https://www.nordkeyboards.com/products/ ... ison-chart

Incremental upgrades and a handful of important new features, plus a synth engine carried over from the flagship synth.
Seem familiar?

Or maybe you were just expecting a completely new product line, while they were actually working on a new, updated version of their Stage series.

at this point I don't know what I was expecting
on the other hand why bring out a new model at all?
Maybe people here think it's "folksy" to operate this way
maybe because it will put up with this for years they don't care
they seem to have convinced a large number of people that they make better stuff than anyone else
which is true in some ways and completely false others
on the other hand it can all be interpreted as being incredibly rude to the people who are willing to pay more money for their product than anyone else's

As for the comment above about going for the worship service
and that's a lucrative way to keep your company business without thinking about those who aren't in that setting
I don't believe that for a minute
there aren't enough places of worship in this country with enough money to buy their equipment to keep them afloat
many things are different in Europe
all of this is irrelevant of course
the company has been doing business this way for years
and they remain solvent
I held off on buying the stage 3 because I was sure this new version would have a lot better things to offer
I guess the jokes on me
either I go by the last iteration for $2500 less than the new one or I don't

Part of me wonders why they get away with this at all
maybe keyboards are just such a niche market that no one cares
could do this with cell phones
or cars
or computers
or anything else

I'm a more recent Nord convert (used workstations for decades).
Got a Stage 3 not really expecting to like it... but found out (for me) it was a far better fit than Montage, Fantom, K2700, or Kronos (had them all).
Love the Stage 3... so I grabbed a Wave 2 (with the idea of using it as a second live keyboard).
Some limitations are frustrating (lack of velocity cross-switched user-samples, limited user-sample memory, etc)
That said, I can get whatever needs done... with relative ease.
The mostly knob/button per-function UI allows me to work fast.

I get those saying they'd like more sample memory.
Who wouldn't???
I'd love more user-sample space.
I'd really love velocity cross-switched user-samples!

Think about the current RAM limitation (total of about 3GB).
Guess what has a 3GB RAM limitation? 32-Bit architecture.
If the NS4 is using 32Bit architecture, there is no adding additional RAM.
I suspect both the NS4 and MPC Key-61 are both using 32bit architecture.
If this assumption is correct, moving to a 64Bit platform would not be trivial.

I preordered the NS4 this morning.
Not because I love the limitations... but because I've loved my overall experience with the NS3 (and Wave 2).
Wave 2 is obviously VA, but I've programmed Moog lead and OB-Xa sounds that hold-their-own vs. Moog One and OB-X8 (have both).
For me, what Nord keyboards lack in ultimate capability, they make up for in practicality.

I've waited up until now to see that most of the Nord people are on the negative with The New Nord, and I can't agree more! I can see if Clavia had put out a in-between Stage 3 EX with a few add-ons, but to put out a what should be another Flagship keyboard should have really shined right out of the gate! I'm sure that some of the designers that could even be on The Nord Users Forum would have wrote down some very important details from the many folks on this site to gather some info on needed updating especially on a new board after waiting so long to create one &. To "SUBTRACT" great tools like The Song Mode is a crazy bad thing to do since many Nord folks use that function daily on the NS3! It is also a bad business venture to not add ways to be able to dump patches programs & etc from the 3 to the 4 because like I. That may be a little difficult to do but folks would be able to use there Nord stage 3 as a backup to the 4 making the company so much more money from many of us! Speaking of which! 5 to 6000 grand! Give us a break on that note! Who's running the show for Clavia!
Sorry but this isn't looking good for them! Can't wait for YouTuber greats like Mark from My keys to music with thoughts and comparison on this one!

tsss27 wrote:The newest model of GSI Gemini has 8 GB free for sample expansion. You can't load user samples, however... Also I should point out that the new Gemini costs exactly the same as the older one did with less memory. Not sure what system they are using?

Good question, I don't know.

changearound wrote:I hope you're wrong in suggesting that to use an External you have to sacrifice an internal synth. This would mean you could only have 3 in total compared to 4 (2 internal synth + 2 External) of all previous Stage models.

Yeah, it's a trade-off. I discussed this at nord-stage-forum-f3/nord-stage-4-offici ... ml#p160929

Gambold wrote:Yeah, well, in the end: it came, we saw...and it's business as usual. The Stage 4 has some nice new features. It's missing things people hoped for. The tech is pretty much the same as it's always been. It's really expensive. It's not a game changer, it's not a new direction, it's not anything that's going to set the digital keyboard world on its ear. It's pretty much what we've been seeing for the past five years or so - steady, dependable, unexciting product.

Sounds just like what lots of people said when the Stage 3 came out. (And probably the Stage 2.)

Whether Nord, Korg, Yamaha, whoever, when they add a new suffix to an existing line, changes are generally (maybe always) evolutionary. What did people expect? What is the big disappointment here? The one that seems to be harped on is "only" 2 GB of piano memory. Seriously? Regardless of spec, I think Nord's pianos already sound better than everyone else's, except maybe some of the Kawais. And as cphollis kind of said, I can't imagine needing more than 2 GB of pianos at a gig... and at home, I have as big a VST library as I want. If you told me I could double the piano memory in the board for $100, I'd pass.

I'm not saying it meets my ideal, either. As I said, I'd have wanted the velocity morph of the Wave. I'd still like to be able to over-ride a fixed split point. I don't think Pending Load has returned, unfortunately. Replacing the screen and the 8 buttons with touchscreen sound patch selection (of 8 or more) would have been better (and would also have taken care of the Pending Load issue). And as long as I'm dreaming, replace all the fader/drawbar-LED combinations with motorized faders/drawbars, which would be far better even than having the LEDs. If it had all those things I'd be drooling for it. As it is, I can keep my lust in check. But I don't dismiss its many significant improvements, and I can easily see where a lot of people could really get excited by this. It doesn't have to be for everyone, and that doesn't mean Nord is Satan.

ironheadslim wrote:Price wise, some of you need to take into account a worldwide panic that caused decreased revenues and massive inflation.

If only what we got paid for gigs was going up comensurately!

anotherscott wrote:

tsss27 wrote:The newest model of GSI Gemini has 8 GB free for sample expansion. You can't load user samples, however... Also I should point out that the new Gemini costs exactly the same as the older one did with less memory. Not sure what system they are using?

Good question, I don't know.

GSi Gemini uses a Nano ATX board (or equivalent "single board computer"), so an another example of (legit and working well) PC-like architecture, as seen on Kronos.

What is the big disappointment here?<

Well, clearly there are quite a few. That they mean little to you doesn't make them go away. The flipside of "you can't please some people no matter what" is "some people will always be pleased by anything."

Personally I was/am getting ready to upgrade my paradigm from the Electro. I've been waiting for the Stage 4 since I didn't want to buy 7-year old technology. Based on everything I've read here from some current Stage owners, this new model is a fairly significant disappointment from an evolutionary perspective. Many excuses and theories have been presented by other current Stage owners to explain those away, but it doesn't change the fact that the disappointment is here.

This forum hosts the savviest and most committed users of Nord products. There is no rousing consensus on the Stage 4, and I'm pretty sure everyone was ready to cheer. It may not be a flop, but it's not feeling like we have a Big Win here either. That doesn't inspire me to get out the checkbook.

Couple that with my own personal disappointments in the memory size, pricing, and lack of "something new" - I'll be passing. And I'm not going to buy a Stage 3, even at the current reduced prices, because again, I'm not interested in sinking that much money into a technology that is that old. If I want a vintage instrument I'll buy a Rhodes.