General Discussion of the Nord Stage (EX), Nord Stage 2 (EX), Nord Stage 3, and Nord Stage 4 Synths, FAQ, Troubleshooting etc.

More seamless switching between Dual KB/mirrored KB

Postby FutureBanana » 13 Oct 2021, 22:42

My setup involves a Nord Stage 3 Compact and a Studiologic SL88. I usually "mirror" the SL88 to the NS3, but on certain programs things are better suited for Dual KB mode (often piano on the SL88, everything else on the NS3).

As it stands, when I use a Dual KB program, I need to also remember to switch the program on my SL88 to one that only broadcasts on channel 2 (which I use for Dual KB mode, instead of channel 1 that I use for Global). As easy as that sounds, it still trips me up from time to time.

I'd love to use my SL as just a "dumb" controller that I never need to touch. Is this possible? Per program MIDI channel settings would be ideal (as discussed in this thread). I've also toyed with trying to use External to do automatic program switching on the SL, though it's not ideal—first off, I can't for the life of me figure out how to get the SL to receive PC messages, and even if I could, using my NS3 to switch programs on my SL that also switch the channels the SL is communicating on could get very complicated.

Any help is greatly appreciated!
Last edited by FutureBanana on 14 Oct 2021, 19:16, edited 1 time in total.
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More seamless switching between Dual KB/mirrored KB


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Re: More seamless switching between Dual KB/mirrored KB

Postby lingiu » 22 Oct 2021, 17:39

Hi
I think that you can use an external APP running on IPAD
I'm speaking about Camelot Pro App that I used with same setup. I tried some scenario but I remember that in this way I had a god performance

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Re: More seamless switching between Dual KB/mirrored KB

Postby DaNDulin » 21 Jun 2022, 00:21

Hello,

I have almost the same setup as FutureBanana is describing in his thread with exactly the same problem which is driving me crazy.

I am brand new to Nord and I've had my NS3 Compact only for less than a week now and I am already trying to pair it with my MIDI controller Studiologic SL73 (basically the same hardware as Studiologic SL88 but less keys and little lighter) though MIDI settings, Dual KB mode and the extern function that NS3 offers. I've managed to make the Dual Keyboard function work aswell on MIDI channel 1 and program 001 on the SL73 (only first zone (1st MIDI channel) active on SL73) and even mirroring the two boards by changing global MIDI channel to number 2 in Nord and adding a second program 002 with only MIDI channel 2 to my SL73 (only the second zone (2nd MIDI channel) on SL73 active). Exactly the same problem, exept I have my global on channel 1 and Dual KB on channel 2, which is not important.

May I ask if anyone, especially you FutureBanana has figured it out somehow? I don't want to use any additional gear (I came from the software route (used Gig Performer with VSTs), so don't want to use any laptop or tablet any more, that's exactly why I own a Nord now).

It's a bummer that NS3 doesn't have the same MIDI flexibility as NS2, it really is, because from what I read on this forum, NS2 would't be a problem pairing it with SL73 or SL88... But it lacks the features I adore on NS3, so yeah, what else there's to say...

I read the manual for SL88 and SL73 (it is exactly the same for the two models) and Studiologic offers a function that involves pedals to send program messages to move internal programs of the board up and down. They offer an external setting that offers the possibility to change programs with your computer via USB port, but no words about the MIDI in port... I tried all of the CC numbers with volume changes in Nord's extern function with the function of the SL73 turned on for the pedal inputs hoping it would work with a certain setting but none of them didn't switch the program and then I tried the same thing with program changes. Nothing. Anyone else having this problem with their SL Studio and would like to use it to it's biggest potential, not having to do something like this manually, which is sometimes in like a NS3's Song mode context while changing patches in the middle of a song improssible?

All of this for a simple applications to use for example a piano with strings played on my SL73 with a working sustain pedal, pedal noise effect and morphed volume parameter of the strings on my expression pedal or wheel and with no need of changing any pedals to the inputs of the SL73, because in that case, Dual KB mode wouldn't work properly on other programs in the Nord etc.

I am afraid that it is not possible right now without any additional external gear. One more thing came to mind and that was MIDI converters but I have no experience with that.

Anyone else wrapping their head around why NS3 doesn't have per program MIDI channel settings and knows their way around this? Simply pathetic

Best regards

Daniel
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Re: More seamless switching between Dual KB/mirrored KB

Postby Elias » 21 Jun 2022, 13:01

Hi @DaNDulin. I'll admit I did not read your entire post, but might have a solution.

If the SL73 responds to MIDI Program Change messages, you can make your Stage 3 Extern send them as needed. Simply make 2 programs on the SL73: one playing ln channel 1, and the other on channel 2.

Read the Stage 3 manual from [url]nordkeyboards.com[/url] and you'll probably see how to do it.
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Re: More seamless switching between Dual KB/mirrored KB

Postby DaNDulin » 27 Jun 2022, 11:41

Hi @Ellias,

Thank you for even trying to understand my issue and for your reply.

I did everything you've mentioned in your post. The problem is that the SL73 is not willing to respond to any program changes messages externally as far as I am concerned, but one of two options when it does responds to program changes is when using it's built-in pedal program up and down function that can't be used with Nord sending specific program changes on Patch basis through it's extern section anyway. Second way to send program change messages to SL73 is from a computer through a USB port somehow, but not through a Midi IN Port. Can't find any other way around it, SL73 seems to be a MIDI controller keyboard that's simply not intended to recieve Program change messages externally which kind of makes sense.

For now, I am sticking to changing my MIDI channels
on two separate programs manually with a knob on the SL73, which is not super intuitive, but at least it works.

If anyone has any other idea how to solve this and is willing to share it, that would be much appreciated.

Regards

Daniel
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Re: More seamless switching between Dual KB/mirrored KB

Postby Elias » 27 Jun 2022, 19:03

Hmmmmm... I cant really see why SL73 would not respond to MIDI Program Change messages.

(I could be wrong, but) have you tried this:
1. Connect Stage 3 MIDI Out to SL73 MIDI In
2. Select Extern channel to same as SL73 global or master or whatever is the main MIDI channel number.
3. Enable Extern program change
4. Change MSB, LSB and Program numbers and see what happens

When all settings are correct, simply changing yhe Extern program change number will always send the corresponding message. Trying different channels, bank numbers and program numbers will show if SL73 does reapond to Program Change.

This might indeed be impossible, but this feature would be a no brainer on such a MIDI controller...
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Re: More seamless switching between Dual KB/mirrored KB

Postby maxpiano » 28 Jun 2022, 08:12

Unfortunately I am afraid the Studiologic SL73/88 at the moment don't implement receiving MIDI Program Changes to select their own setups, if I remember well from a similar discussion on an Italian forum.
Last edited by maxpiano on 28 Jun 2022, 08:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: More seamless switching between Dual KB/mirrored KB

Postby FZiegler » 28 Jun 2022, 10:59

Which is astonishing, even if it's logical that a 'master' keyboard or 'controller' doesn't want to take commands and be controlled itself.

So, I will delete the SL88 from my wish list. Deceiving for nowadays tasks to have a controller board that only is able to control others. In the manual, it looks as if the MIDI-in is only meant for a pedal board!?
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Re: More seamless switching between Dual KB/mirrored KB

Postby DaNDulin » 30 Jun 2022, 21:30

I tried everything @Elias mentioned in his last post multiple times and it really doesn't respond to any combination of MSB, LSB numbers. I had my laptop and Nord connected to my SL73 at the time of trying that and it was able to switch programs on my Gig Performer 4 setup and my NS3 simutaneously, but not even once on the controller itself via Nord extern function and MIDI connection which leads me to believe it is not possible, as @maxpiano mentioned.

Has anyone tried to contact Studiologic about this issue? I think it could be easily solved by extending the EXT program change function found in the SL73/88 manual to not only usable via USB port, but with a MIDI IN as well for example.

And finally I agree with everybody. It is so weird, that this is not a feature on the SL73. I bought this controller before NS3 for live use with my computer which worked flawlessly because I could set everything on my computer and have just one program active on my SL73 the whole time... With NS3 it is a different story when trying to implement both Dual KB and mirrored KB into my playing. Such a shame really, everything else on the SL73 is so perfect for a live second slave keyboard, especially as a pair for a semi-weighted key action on the NS3 Compact which is not so ideal for piano work atleast for my taste.

Once again thanks to everybody for their answers, I really do appreciate it!
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Re: More seamless switching between Dual KB/mirrored KB

Postby BluesForJonny » 14 Jul 2022, 21:29

Hi all - short of an external MIDI controller ($100+), any MIDI changes via the controller keyboard's console/menu are virtually impossible to rapidly switch on and off between songs in a live performance.

I built my own guitar pedal for this (less than $30 US): lovemyswitches.com has a great selection of blank pedal sizes (their orange-red color is VERY close to Nord Red) and SPDT, DPDT, 3PDT latching switches. You can get 5-pin MIDI ports from newark.com. Both companies provided excellent service at reasonable prices and the extra $4 for the powder-coating was worth every penny.

Pin 4 provides voltage for Note-On, Note-Off, Pin 5 is the sink, and Pin 2 is the sleeve.

Solder wires from DIN 1 (MIDI In) to DIN 2 (MIDI Out): pin 4 to pin 4, pin 2 to pin 2, pin 5 to pin 5. Pins 1 and 3 are not used and you may opt to solder another wire between the ground pin on each DIN.

Cut the pin 4 wire and solder each side to the poles on a latching switch. When you click the switch on, you are controlling your MIDI slave, when you click the switch, you run individual keyboards. There is one caveat: if you are switched on (controlling a slave keyboard) and click off while a note is playing, or while the sustain pedal is depressed, you may get sounds stuck on, or continuously sustained. On my Electro6HP, switching sounds or pressing the sustain pedal will get rid of the stuck notes. But if you are using this between songs in a live performance, as I do, you will be fine.

You'll have to drill 5/8" holes in the box for the DIN plugs, 1/8" holes for hardware to fasten the DIN plugs to the pedal, and a 1/2" hole for the switch.

Ping me if you are interested and I will happy to share more detailed specifications.

Pics:
https://www.norduserforum.com/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=1&image_id=736
https://www.norduserforum.com/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=1&image_id=737
https://www.norduserforum.com/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=1&image_id=738
Last edited by BluesForJonny on 18 Jul 2022, 20:08, edited 3 times in total.
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