Nord User Forum

ACCORDIONMAN wrote:What's the issue? Could this not be done in one day?

You want a multilayer sound and multilayer release samples. Good idea. I would be pleased to have that, too.

But in one day? I don't think that's the way it works.

1. Get hand on an appropriate instrument. Get it restaurated so that the single keys sound alike. (1 week)
2. Get the right microphones in the right position. Make test recordings and control them thoroughly. (certainly more than 1 day)
3. Create a recording schedule (half a day - maybe, they have it already and reuse it for any sound)
4. Record the whole program. (half a day)
5. Get the recorded material in order. (easily more than one day)
6. cut the tones, apply loop points, cut out the release sounds (certainly more than a day)
7. put the sample together (no idea how they do it and how much time it takes)
8. test play the sample, identify less pleasing points and redo No. 6/7 for a few times...

I think there is a reason why we don't have multilayer samples for the synth section. And it's probably not because even the latest instruments lack calculating power or Nord are lazy in programming it.

Having done lots of my own sampling, I can tell you that you can certainly get a lot done in a day. Most likely Nord isn't going to sample every single note of the clavinet, and it probably won't need quite as many velocity layers as the acoustic pianos for example (though I certainly wouldn't complain if it did!) If loop points will be added, you don't need to record the entire decay phase of each note either. Clavinet should ideally be recorded direct, so once levels are set it would be good to go, no need to mess with mics and their positions.

The one major difference here is that the various pickup combinations would need to be sampled, and that would add considerably more time to the recording and editing sessions. That's 4 different variations of the same instrument.

So it's hard to say exactly how long it would take them. The entire process would not be done in one day regardless unless perhaps they didn't sleep at all and worked for 24 hours straight...

tsss27 wrote:The one major difference here is that the various pickup combinations would need to be sampled, and that would add considerably more time to the recording and editing sessions. That's 4 different variations of the same instrument.

I count 64 variations. Six tabs, each with two positions, is 64 combinations.

FZiegler wrote:2. Get the right microphones in the right position. Make test recordings and control them thoroughly.

No, a clavinet should be recorded from its line out. Then you could put it through your amp (or amp sim) of choice. I'm not saying it might not also worthwhile to record, say, a clav going through a Fender Twin or whatever, but that would be a more unusual "specialty" thing and not a way to create a default clav sound. Same as with a Rhodes or Wurli, where Nord has provided "amped" models, but that's the exception rather than the rule.

analogika wrote:

tsss27 wrote:The one major difference here is that the various pickup combinations would need to be sampled, and that would add considerably more time to the recording and editing sessions. That's 4 different variations of the same instrument.

I count 64 variations. Six tabs, each with two positions, is 64 combinations.

There are 4 basic sounds (pickups AC, AD, BC, BD). The sounds of the others tabs are basically merely applying various filters/EQ, which can be recreated electronically and do not need to be sampled. In fact, one of the irrations in Nord's clav emulations these days is that they no longer duplicate every one of those different EQ settings. Earlier Nords (like the Electro 2/3 and Stage 2) emulated every one of them. They were absent on the Electro 5, though most (not all) of them were restored on the Stage 3 and E6. (As an aside, straight multiplication to determine the number of variations won't work, you have to allow for the fact that you get no sound if all four of the EQ rockers are in their off position! So that create 4 "silent" combinations... 4-tone-rockers off, in each of the 4 pickup settings.)

The other element of the clav we haven't covered is the operation of the mute bar.

tsss27 wrote:If loop points will be added, you don't need to record the entire decay phase of each note either.

In my experience, looping is more time consuming than simply recording the entire decay phase. But you do it, because samples that include the entire decay phase result in comparatively huge file sizes.

FZiegler wrote:I think there is a reason why we don't have multilayer samples for the synth section. And it's probably not because even the latest instruments lack calculating power or Nord are lazy in programming it.

That's an interesting question. Originally, it might just as not have been seen as necessary... back in the Electro 3 days, the sample section was probably first seen as an extension of the "vintage keys" emulator that the Electro 2 already was... it allowed the addition of other vintage keys sounds (most notably mellotron)... and those vintage keys only required a single velocity layer, so that might have been their initial starting point, before deciding to expand that functionality. Additional benefits of a single velocity layer approach, though, is that it allowed for a very simple editor (the Nord Sample Editor is one of the easiest sample manipulation tools around, and that's partly because there are no velocity layers), plus single velocity layers makes limited storage capacity less of an issue, which was that much more relevant back in the Electro 3 days when that memory was that much more expensive. (People have always complained about not having enough memory... How much more would that be the case if downloaded samples could be double or triple the size by virtue of having 2 or 3 velocity layers?) Calculating power wouldn't be an issue, though... multiple velocity layer playback isn't really more demanding, and of course, they were already doing it with the piano sounds.

Resources could be a factor. Not "laziness" per se, but a small company with limited staff has to decide whether it's worth committing the man-hours/finances to develop a particular capability. On one hand, as I said, they already do it in the piano section, so it would seem like they already some such development done. OTOH, multiple velocity layer capability is useless unless you develop a library of multiple velocity layer sounds for it... and that sampling could indeed be very resource intensive. Or it would need to be out-sourced/licensed, which is then another expense. And then, people will want to create their own multisampled sounds, which would require a different editor... and we know from Nord's history with the sample editor that this kind of development does not come easily, either. Would people be content with only single velocity samples being available for end user manipulation? I don't know. But it's also worth considering that those boards that do permit end-user multiple-velocity sample management (e.g. Kronos, Motifs, assorted Kurzweils, etc.) are notoriously complicated and "un-Nord like" when it comes to such sample management, whether on-board or via computer-based editors.

Mr_-G- wrote:

ericL wrote:Someone on this forum (I think) had created such a sample that could be loaded in the Sample section and then layered with the clav section.

Is that possible at all? The sample should trigger with the "note release"...
I think that somebody posted the hammer sound for Rhodes (in which case it works because it is triggered with the "note on").

I wonder if that are possible at all in the Nord Stage as it are designed today.
How and when should it be triggered?

The best clavinet simulators out there with release sound are typically physical modeling.
It might be possible in the Wave2 by combinate sample and synth, but I do not know all the specifications on it, and then it are missing the Wah effect I love to use on it.

Here is an example on the key off sound I wish we could create and combine on the Stage, but I think he is using a inverted modulation to create it, that is not available on the Stage - ca. 55 second into the video

Bjosko wrote:How and when should it be triggered?

"When" is the easy part: on Note Off. The trick is the "how". I do not think the current synth section in the Stage models support that (?).
How is that done in the A1??
[Edit]: The A1 has an envelope inverter switch!

Nord implemented the note off feature on some Harpsichord sound like the Italian Harpsich 1D.... they could do the same for the clavinet if they decide one day to improve it

florence wrote:Nord implemented the note off feature on some Harpsichord sound like the Italian Harpsich 1D.... they could do the same for the clavinet if they decide one day to improve it

An old thread I know but do you know how they did it on the harpsichord sound? Would love to add a release sound to my clav sounds on the NS4 ....

However they did it, you could not do it the same way. No such editing facilities are provided to customize sounds in the piano library.