Vibrato and Chorus "Normal / Soft" tab

Hlaalu · Post by **Hlaalu** » 23 Feb 2021, 11:31

I was wondering why the leftmost tab of the V&C scanner on real Hammonds never seems to be present on any clone that I can think of in recent years, apart from the super expensive "New B-3" from Hammond-Suzuki (which isn't even recent... almost 20 years ago).

If the tab does what it says to, namely simply changing the loudness of the V&C effect, then it shouldn't be particularly tricky to emulate its function. I mean clonewheels already do much harder stuff than that, emulating all sorts of other features and artifacts... This can't be the reasons it has been left out.

I checked the service manual for real B-3s/C-3s, and I can't find mention of this. The manual of the New B-3 shows the picture but doesn't seem to say a word about it. I find it puzzling that it gets simply ignored.

Anyone with some more real Hammond experience may perhaps want to jump in and comment?

analogika · Post by **analogika** » 23 Feb 2021, 12:09

The "normal"/"soft" tab is NOT a vibrato/chorus setting.

It lowers the overall volume of the organ drastically and cuts the bass a bit. It's never used, because it makes the organ sound thin and quiet — basically a "late at night neighbour-friendly" setting.

Sort of how upright piano samples never include the middle-pedal drop felt in front of the hammers that makes it sound like s*** when engaged.

Rusty Mike · Post by **Rusty Mike** » 23 Feb 2021, 15:10

From what I recall, the normal/soft tab works in conjunction with the percussion, and not C/V. The “Normal” setting keeps the sound of the organ the same when percussion is engaged, while the “Soft” setting reduces it in order to bring the percussion effect out more.

The true Hammond players can correct me on that one, but I believe that’s how it works. I am not an expert on this.

Hlaalu · Post by **Hlaalu** » 23 Feb 2021, 15:31

Rusty Mike wrote:From what I recall, the normal/soft tab works in conjunction with the percussion, and not C/V. The “Normal” setting keeps the sound of the organ the same when percussion is engaged, while the “Soft” setting reduces it in order to bring the percussion effect out more.

The true Hammond players can correct me on that one, but I believe that’s how it works. I am not an expert on this.

No that's another thing: namely, the "soft / normal" tab of the Percussion section. And it actually works a bit in the opposite way as you mention because if set on "normal" it increases the volume of the Percussion and it softens slightly the volume of the drawbars. On "soft", it leaves the drawbars volume the same and the percussion itself is less loud too.

But the button I was talking about is on the left of the main panel, next to the Chorus and Vibrato buttons and knob. Hence my confusion.

EDIT: the attached picture is what I was talking about.
I wasn't aware the Hammonds had a "don't play too loud at night"-kind of button, as analogika explained. It makes sense why it's never replicated in clones.

Rusty Mike · Post by **Rusty Mike** » 23 Feb 2021, 16:12

Ahh, got it. Thank you for the correction!

I never realized it, but my M3 has the same tab. I've never touched it LOL!

Hlaalu · Post by **Hlaalu** » 23 Feb 2021, 16:39

Rusty Mike wrote:I've never touched it LOL!

Well if you ever happen to get complains from your neighbours...

Spider · Post by **Spider** » 23 Feb 2021, 17:45

It is as Analogika says: the "Volume" indication on that tab refers to the global volume of the organ, not to the Chorus/Vibrato volume.
It is not modeled in clonewheels, simply because they have a volume knob.

Bjosko · Post by **Bjosko** » 23 Feb 2021, 18:07

I used to use it when I used my Hammond in my band (lot of use here

). In combination with drawbars when we tried to fade out a song. As others pointed out, no need for it on a clone, as they have a volume knob.

LeftyBass68 · Post by **LeftyBass68** » 05 Apr 2021, 18:37

Soft is for pads,comps etc.Normal......is when the v21 Leslie driver is in real danger of exploding.No aftermarket cheekblock add on here.
Solos are instantly heard through the use of the volume normal tab.Great for saving your hips if you stand and operate an expression pedal for forty years.
It's the 'solo' tab on many 'recased' touring Hammonds.Also can be rewired to exclude the bass rolloff.
As an expression pedal opens up the tone thins considerably on a real B3.A quick look at the air gap vanes inside the 'doghouse' confirm the use of a rolloff 'cap'.
Those that stand and play find it convenient to rock a tab rather than stomp a pedal.
Engage the perc normal tab and lose 12db of 'beef' on your drawbars?
On a real B3 the mod is a simple resistor bypass in the matching transformer.Nord should pay more attention to the B3.This E2/61 is still better than both these Stage 3's.
C2D still the best Nord organ clone IMO. Stage 3 Compact B3 routed through the 'real' Hammond A102 preamp RCA input sounds fine.Really needs the AO28 preamp......Stage 3 organs are lame in comparison and need help.
Just happen to have the fix here.....a real Hammond and Leslie.Haha

SynMike · Post by **SynMike** » 24 Apr 2021, 11:18

analogika wrote:The "normal"/"soft" tab is NOT a vibrato/chorus setting.

It lowers the overall volume of the organ drastically and cuts the bass a bit. It's never used, because it makes the organ sound thin and quiet — basically a "late at night neighbour-friendly" setting.

Sort of how upright piano samples never include the middle-pedal drop felt in front of the hammers that makes it sound like s*** when engaged.

Yes, this switch lowers the total volume of the whole organ.

It's very useful for a church setting. My first Hammond, that I first played when I was 15, was the C3 in my church. On a real Hammond, the expression pedal does not reduce the volume all the way to no sound. You set the tab to Normal for playing in the normal range with other instruments, choir, church congregation singing etc. A Hammond with a real Leslie is loud, able to compete with drums and brass. But when you want to play organ behind someone speaking (as is done regularly in some churches), the range of control is very limited at the bottom end of the pedal range and also might not go low enough. So to play quietly, you flip the tab to Soft mode, and now you still have a comfortable and controllable dynamic range on the expression pedal.

Nord User Forum

Vibrato and Chorus "Normal / Soft" tab

Vibrato and Chorus "Normal / Soft" tab

Re: Vibrato and Chorus "Normal / Soft" tab

Re: Vibrato and Chorus "Normal / Soft" tab

Re: Vibrato and Chorus "Normal / Soft" tab

Re: Vibrato and Chorus "Normal / Soft" tab

Re: Vibrato and Chorus "Normal / Soft" tab

Re: Vibrato and Chorus "Normal / Soft" tab

Re: Vibrato and Chorus "Normal / Soft" tab

Re: Vibrato and Chorus "Normal / Soft" tab

Re: Vibrato and Chorus "Normal / Soft" tab