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Re: Nord Grand, customizable velocity curves?

Postby CelticSoulMan » 11 Sep 2020, 12:30

This is an area Nord need to gear up on. It was the first area of concern for me, considering the “type” of machine the Grand is, and it’s competitors. The Kawai MP7 has switchable velocities, so let’s get the Grand implemented with adjustable weight in software, and to be assignable to the control knob as A customisable value.
Light is unusable, medium doesn’t fit with the samples, and heavy seems to need a key drop hammer fall of around 1’ to produce reasonable tone.
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Re: Nord Grand, customizable velocity curves?


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Re: Nord Grand, customizable velocity curves?

Postby proteus171263 » 10 Nov 2020, 06:56

Please implement "Seamless Dynamic Velocity Curves" for the Grand. Only 3 presets for such a great instruments is to less especially in comparison to other competitors. Otherwise I must sell my Grand.
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Re: Nord Grand, customizable velocity curves?

Postby proteus171263 » 10 Nov 2020, 06:58

CelticSoulMan wrote:This is an area Nord need to gear up on. It was the first area of concern for me, considering the “type” of machine the Grand is, and it’s competitors. The Kawai MP7 has switchable velocities, so let’s get the Grand implemented with adjustable weight in software, and to be assignable to the control knob as A customisable value.
Light is unusable, medium doesn’t fit with the samples, and heavy seems to need a key drop hammer fall of around 1’ to produce reasonable tone.

Yes they should. :ugeek:
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Re: Nord Grand, customizable velocity curves?

Postby proteus171263 » 10 Nov 2020, 06:59

CelticSoulMan wrote:This is an area Nord need to gear up on. It was the first area of concern for me, considering the “type” of machine the Grand is, and it’s competitors. The Kawai MP7 has switchable velocities, so let’s get the Grand implemented with adjustable weight in software, and to be assignable to the control knob as A customisable value.
Light is unusable, medium doesn’t fit with the samples, and heavy seems to need a key drop hammer fall of around 1’ to produce reasonable tone.

The same for me espacially with Rhodes ans Wurli. :-x
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Re: Nord Grand, customizable velocity curves?

Postby proteus171263 » 10 Nov 2020, 07:07

At your last point: Especially at Fender Rhodes you can play it "mechanical seamless" by varying your own hitting. Not so with 3 dynamic curve presets on my Grand. It feels like switching the velocity especially with Rhodes & Wurli.
Last edited by proteus171263 on 10 Nov 2020, 07:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nord Grand, customizable velocity curves?

Postby Bandinabox » 14 Nov 2020, 18:43

Hi, I do a lot of recording in to a DAW (Cubase in this case)
I use both external instruments (Keyscape, Noire, Synchron, etc) and the internal sounds.

I have struggled a bit with the lack of velocity curve modification. There is no way to change it, and its disconnected from the Midi.

My solution is to either correct every "hard hit" "Velocity screaming" note by hand. Or to insert a midi modifier that change the velocity range.

The beautiful sample "White Grand" is very dynamic, and for live probably ok, but as I see it (or feel it) the response curve is a bit raw.

In Keyscape you can fix your own velocity curve, same in "Hans Zimmer" piano, but the Native Instruments Pianos has only fixed curves to choose from.

I have the Komplete S88 and a Yamaha CP, but I return to the Nord Grand as my main master keyboard due to the superb feel of the Kawai Hammer Action.

/My 5 cents in to the discussion
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Re: Nord Grand, customizable velocity curves?

Postby ashleyknow » 19 Feb 2021, 14:53

I'm with you on this. There's definitely something unnatural in the higher velocity ranges of Nord's piano patches - touch a key just a little harder than you intended, and they respond as though you'd hit them with a hammer. Yes, you can learn to play around the issue, but only by dampening your playing - in my case, I have no problem with thickly chorded comping or gentle tinkly stuff, but let myself go a bit and the rest of the band is asking why the piano has suddenly become so shrill. I know we're not alone here, as I've seen this mentioned in A/B reviews of the Grand vs other makes.

I'm pretty sure that it's not the keybed that's at fault here, as I can use it to play software pianos with no issues at all - rather, Nord seem to have decided that we might want to hear what a piano sounds like being hit very hard indeed, or that modern production requires a brighter tone generally, and that if we don't like that we can always use the Heavy touch setting or roll off the higher frequencies in EQ. But those are workarounds, and they're not great: for all but the most detailed piano patches (everything other than the XLs, in other words), the Heavy touch setting gives unpleasantly muddy, obviously filtered sound at lower velocities, and EQing out the top end removes lots of detail that you want to hear as well as the jangle that you don't.

So, I've just started experimenting with the MIDI Solutions Velocity Converter, and first impressions are good - it feels as though it's going to revolutionise my enjoyment of the instrument, and I can actually play the more expressive pianos such as the Steinway model D patches without fear of setting off landmines. The best approach I've found so far is to use the medium touch setting on the Grand and to keep the response of the Velocity Converter linear until the input velocity reaches about 60 and then to gradually roll it off, so that when the input hits 127, the output is between 105 and 110. I don't miss the top part of the range at all, and the pianos all feel much more natural now. It's not quite the same for the Rhodes and Wurly patches, but you can use the MIDI Solutions box with a different curve on each MIDI channel if that becomes a problem.

Note - if you decide to try the MIDI Solutions box, remember to buy the power supply as well - the box will self-power from older keyboards that send 5V to the MIDI out socket, but the Grand operates at the newer 3.3V standard, which isn't enough.

Now to add my name to the list of those who've asked Clavia to implement something like this - ideally, to be able to redefine each of the three curves, so that one would work best for acoustic pianos, one for Rhodes and one for clavs, perhaps - this should be possible, unless the response is hard-coded into each patch individually ...

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Re: Nord Grand, customizable velocity curves?

Postby SimonIsHere » 22 Feb 2021, 13:35

Is the piano 4 as limited as the NG in velocity?
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Re: Nord Grand, customizable velocity curves?

Postby Hlaalu » 22 Feb 2021, 15:06

ashleyknow wrote:It's not quite the same for the Rhodes and Wurly patches, but you can use the MIDI Solutions box with a different curve on each MIDI channel if that becomes a problem.


Is that kind of MIDI routing achievable on the Grand? On the Stage 3 it isn't very feasible. To have Piano on a MIDI channel and a Rhodes on another would mean to get inside the menu page and change it every time. Off the top of my head I can't see a way to set that up in a per Program fashion either, which is unfortunate.

Speaking of which, how do you set up the Velocity Converter? You feed it on MIDI out then you loop it back into the Grand's MIDI in? (Assuming you're not using a PC of course).
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Re: Nord Grand, customizable velocity curves?

Postby SimonIsHere » 26 Feb 2021, 22:09

I picked up my Nord Grand today and have messed around with it tonight.

If this is the top of the pop then we still got a huge way to go. I am used to play acoustic pianos, but do also got a midi controller with weightless keys on it.
For me it is very important that the keys feel realistic as an acoustic piano and these keys on the Nord grand feels good. Not the best i've tried, but I have tried much worse. For me it is about knowing them and then all is fine in the end, but...

And there is a big but so to speak: I have to press relatively hard to even get a sound from the key and what is the purpose of realistic heavy-weighted keys then?
I mean what do I need a realistic feel for, if the sound dont follow?

I used this thread, cause I figure that it has to do with these limited 3 velocity curves that the instrument offer.
I am in a lil bit of a shock to be honest, cause how on earth can such expensive and talked-about-piano be so limited.
This aspect of the piano is one of the absolute most essential aspects to be able to express oneself: the dynamics.
I dont get it...

Is this the same on all NORD products, that we only have these 3 velocity curves?
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