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Re: Best expression pedal for NS2

Postby Schorsch » 02 Aug 2020, 21:38

Hi Dobby, I fully understand your frustration although it seems not to be clear what real caused the problem, or may be I just didn’t got it. However, I wonder if it’s really true that Nord does not take boards back which get problems during the warranty period. I also don’t know the legal situation in your country, here in Germany the dealer has the obligation to take care of either repairing or changing a faulty instrument during the warranty period, and they manage the exchange with the manufacturer separately (in the background) then. Are you sure that Nord is generally not taking back defective instruments while still under warranty, or is it your dealer telling you this?
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Re: Best expression pedal for NS2


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Re: Best expression pedal for NS2

Postby Dobby » 02 Aug 2020, 22:07

Schorsch,

I really don't belong here now Schorsch, because the board is returned now.

But, if it helps the process, I'll respond. I too, am completely bewildered at what really went wrong with this piece of electronics equipment. I got recommended a pedal that others use successfully. I plugged it into it's input socket, and my mother board is broken. More lights were lighting up last night when I turned power on, onece, briefly, to try reloading a fresh operating system install. That, by the way, did nothing to change the situation. I shut it off. I no longer have the board. Because of the financial way life is, ha ... literally, a sale ... and timing ... and a production I was involved in (was?) ... I am not even left with enough money to buy another stage product. And, if you can believe this insanity ... I was having so much fun creatively ... that I want another!

I gave everything I had left, and sold a few boards to get into Nords stage. And I, specifically used all it's functionality for what I do. Ya, in two weeks. I had the board aced before I ever lay my hands on it. I watched vids, read the manual ... planned a show around it.

I no longer have a Nord, can't have a Nord anymore, even if I want one, and am very confused right now. Life altering moment.

Gun shy? Gun shy. That ... was scary. Why doesn't someone tell me ME what the hell just happened? My life is shattered right no you know. Falling apart beyond the damn keyboard. This weeks meeting will be fun. My last.
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Re: Best expression pedal for NS2

Postby Spider » 03 Aug 2020, 14:39

Have you ever dealt with returns, warranties etc? In my experience, I NEVER returned anything directly to the mother company (unless it was a small local producer), I always dealt with the shop I bought it from, and/or with the national distributor, and/or with a local authorized service center.

This is not a common issue, I never heard of a jack breaking and the cable getting stuck inside. So it was an unfortunate accident but surely not an indication that Nord produces rubbish instruments.
If you bought it new, I don't understand why it's so unthinkable to simply send it back to the shop for repairs? Even if it's not covered by warranty, soldering a new jack will probably require very little time and money.
Why do you assume that Mr. Nord himself should come all the way from Sweden to your door and make things right, if Clavia had no role in the whole situation, and if the damage was maybe involuntarily caused by your own actions?
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Re: Best expression pedal for NS2

Postby Dobby » 03 Aug 2020, 17:46

Feeling a little better about this unfortunate incident today. Thanks for your concern.

The big box store seems to exactly be my problem. When I returned it to one of the six of them (I think) in our city (same company, the only place you can really buy any instrument anymore, actually) ... the nice fellow didn't even want to know why I was returning it. For a moment, I tried to tell him, but he then spent much longer explaining to me how it's a computer form, streamlined, he doesn't care about those details ... nowhere to enter them. Name, number ... you know the drill.

It was returned in silence. There did come along a field on his form for 'why.' Meh, two sentences into mine, he summarized it into an interesting adjective. I went with it, because he really was adamant about teaching me how not to care about any of those annoying details.

I backed out of the show today. My heart isn't broken, but a bunch of other people's hearts sure are. I didn't want to do this show anyway, not a lot, I just married it together, with love, with an opportunity to get my next baby for the next thirty years, to be with me through my twilight of life. I certainly am not accustomed to having to visit those music shops with my gear. An autistic composer arranger guy? Those people auditioned a DJ's 10's, 12's an 15's monitors 10 days ago, while I patiently waited ... and then told me no, there was no time to bring my stage 3 there and hear it through the K8.2's ... it would offend people, making noise while people were shopping. And we had just listened, together, joyfully, to the wonderful bass that came out of the speakers for the DJ's audition. Explain that logic to me. That's the treatment I get at those sterile places. They don't even know about the gear they're selling anyway, but they pretend to. It's so weird, and wrong, social failure.

No, I wanted my rest of life board. My boards have never ever needed to visit these weird big box musical salesman places. That's what 'servicing' it will be like.

I simply erred. I found myself out on a limb, assuming full financial risk for a board that people now, very hopefully, expected me to take out of my studio. I am uncomfortable assuming that risk now. And with my autism, my boards can't require a permanent, well established, social relationship with some big box business that wants to eliminate such complexities out of their systems anyway. There's a disconnect happening here. It needs to be more dummy proof than that for me, I'm careful with my boards, because I know I struggle with the wheeling and dealing. Music stores, are not comfortable places for me. The bar scene guys work there, I find they play games, politics. How am I to get this board serviced through that noise?

I feel ok about this peeps. I wasn't two weeks in, it was three, it happened with just days left before the thirty days was up,  and it's a holiday weekend here. I had that day to act ... or I would've held the risk. I got out. The meeting, broke my heart, to be breaking theirs. If there is a requirement to have a stable and ongoing relationship with someone who will be servicing these boards as part of some condition of ownership, then that needs to be better stated up front.

I, don't think that was a board to buy for life like my sy-77 was and still is. I thought, with my record with gear, that it would last for the rest of my life, relatively trouble free. Maybe Nords are relatively trouble free, but mine wasn't. Those noisy notes showed up on my hp76 after the first week, by the way. I didn't complain, I was having too much fun (clicky when they travel back up to the stop.) But will that last thirty years then? And of course I was the one who bought the pedal and plugged it in, I don't really need to be reminded who had the unit signed out at the time. I don't want that sort of risk. Don't need it in my life. And now, if I did assume it, I wouldn't obligate myself to take it out of the house. That's not very workable for me. I guess I'm too poor, face it. That money mattered to me.

Don't worry about me though. The human end of it. This probably settles a debate in myself about my involvement in music anyway. It's no fun anymore. This was the board that was supposed to re inspire me. Meh. I just had to let people down today, that's not very inspiring. And I couldn't assume that risk. That's why I'm slowly withdrawing from even being involved in this sort of activity. But then these show people, they ask so nicely, and I so love filling that space for them. Then I find out I'm not qualified to touch the awesome new rig I've dreamed about for years. A turning point for me.

Feeling better myself today though, emotionally, thanks for asking, community.
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Re: Best expression pedal for NS2

Postby Spider » 03 Aug 2020, 18:06

Wow, sorry for your bad experience at the shop, now it's clearer why you were so reluctant to bring it back. Unfortunately that's the reality of the musical instrument business nowadays, you buy online or from a shop, and you know the first 15-30 days (depending on the shop's policy) are basically a free trial to test the keyboard and see if you like it and if there are any issues.
It feels bad to say "ok, it's not for me" and return it to the shop, the first time I almost felt like I was cheating. But it's our right, and it's ok to exercise it.
Even more if the instrument was somehow defective.
Still, having to go through bureaucracy and papers just to have the fully functioning intrument you paid for, it's always unnerving.
And of course, Nords are a big investment and you have to feel good about it.

Try not to let it ruin your mood, it's just a keyboard after all, and it's meant to make you happy! If you can still use your old Yamaha, just do it and be happy with it!
In general, I found that just being honest and open-mouthed to the shopkeepers is usually enough to make them well-disposed and honest towards me. Hope it works for you too, life's too short to have it ruined by a bad transaction!
:)

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Re: Best expression pedal for NS2

Postby Dobby » 03 Aug 2020, 20:16

If you want a window into the weird mind of an autistic person ... I actually had been formulating ideas for years, based on what I knew the stage software and design could do regarding multi keyboard arrangements. This show I speak of, was really just going to be all the things I couldn't do before, that I knew, obviously, the Nord was capable of doing. The show I allude to, is in a way, the implementation of these arranging ideas. There was a lot of it produced already in that 30 days ... I guess it had been like I was writing for an instrument I never had yet all those years, preparing.

Well, people heard it, wheels started rolling ... they want that thing.

There's no way I can even produce for them what they were hearing in the first hour of ideas I had together for them. That was the point, only able to be done with the stage. Dudes, I am fleeing what they expect from me now after they've heard what was already accomplished with it. Back to hide in my autistic little cubby hole. No way can you do what I was doing on my old setup. That's why we never put the idea in motion before. I knew the tool I needed, for years I knew not to go there, until the day I got this instrument. No tool, no show. Sorry.

Ya, it's awkward. I'm autistic. I had ideas, for years, for an instrument I didn't even have yet. And boy, was it ever doing it last month. Very well. Back to just a vision now. That's why this show just died. I can't do what I was going to do for them, on anything but the instrument it was all arranged for. I know, weird and autistic, but I went there.

I hear myself defending my choices here. Maybe, I should be banned. That might help me, actually, to be cut off now. Sorry this all happened peeps.

... ...

Edited to add:

With my autism, I am ashamed that I can't figure out a better way to navigate the big box salesman. It's noboy's fault, really, forget fault. Ti's just life. I can't have a board that requires me to go down to that store, any of their locations, and navigate a bunch of social stuff that isn't even related to the issue ... very often ... hopefully, never. It's nobody's fault. It's just life. It comes with autism.

Wait, Eureka, I believe 'fault' was the adjective that went in the 'why' field !! (Little funny for you as they get the hook and escort me out of here, but that was the adjective, for real. I don't do fault so much.)
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Re: Best expression pedal for NS2

Postby Schorsch » 03 Aug 2020, 22:24

Hi Dobby,

I think you cannot generally blame Nord or the Nord Stage‘s quality for what had happened, it looks as if this was really something unfortunate. If you get the money back from the dealer and if you have enjoyed that much what you did with the Nord before it failed I would give it a second chance, buy another model and continue what you were doing with the Nord already. It’s really worth since these are just wonderful instruments which a lot of capabilities as you already mentioned.
Regards Schorsch

Want to convert programs between NS2 and NS3?
Check this awesome website to visually view NS2/3 programs and re-create them on the other instrument!


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Re: Best expression pedal for NS2

Postby Dobby » 04 Aug 2020, 17:12

Hi Schorsch, thanks again for your input.

I don't blame Nord. Obviously, this was all caused by a shoddy, cheap cable. I expect to detect a failed cable through signal issues, not by having it gut an expensive keyboard.

I don't blame Nord. But my interest wasn't so much about Nord, or Nord quality. It was about how the incident would be handled, how I ... the human the instrument was intended for in the first place ... came through such an experience. Well, all the bucks, stopped at me. Help? Information? What do I do, since my dealer doesn't communicate with me, and indicates to me through their policies that that's not even their role? Sorry if I'm in error due to this, but after 40 years in professional music, I've never needed to have any of my boards serviced, or even cleaned. I keep them clean. I am that careful with them. That's part of why this was so offensive to me. I've been in this for a lifetime you know. And I actually play live, like for real. This wasn't my fault, if people are only concerned about fault and legal protection and nonsense like that. Or their stock share values. I care about the human component, period.

I was lost and on my own, first time user, with a clock ticking on the return option. No resource for this.

And I'm sorry, I can't eat the 75 dollars now for the Moog pedal with the stealth Dalek death cable. And they don't want to know why I will be returning it. Can't return it without the cable it was packed with. They don't want to talk about the return ... it even irritates them if you try.

So, that cable will eat another instrument. But sorry, I don't need an expression pedal anymore. I'm not taking that one for the team too. I'm out two older keyboards I used to have now, and now I guess needed, sort of, maybe not anymore. The retail end of things, need some addressing. I, lost big time here. The consumer, the end user, saddled with all the carnage.

Thanks for listening. Thanks for the couple of people who bothered to answer. I understand the need to defend your loved company, but there weren't really ... any ... suggestions here. Some introduction to how servicing even proceeds with a Nord might've been helpful. Help me ease my toes into that strange water, if that's such a big up-front part of having one of these boards. But, there were no responses like that. Time was of the essence. Ya, the whole thing has been a very off-putting experience. I won't even be engaging music for awhile now after this. I really had dreamed about Nord for a long time. Not healthy. I got hosed.

Goodbye NUF.
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Re: Best expression pedal for NS2

Postby Dobby » 21 Aug 2020, 17:40

Hi, shortish update. It appears not to have been the cable.

Our soundman dropped through town, actually ... ha ... to hear this board (he was traveling.) He found nothing physically wrong with the moog foot pedal cable, cheap as it is. He remarked how marketing wise, one might even think it safer to go with their cable, paired to the pedal, rather than the ... other, 'one' ... trs brand the 'dealer' carries. He plugged it into an old board he carries in his sound van, fearless. It worked fine. The cable went in and out like silk, actually, and gave 100% signal. If you review my comment history above, you can see the Nord never did get a signal, on either the control pedal or the swell pedal sockets, from that cable. Yet on all other keyboards tried, including now my one remaining synth (two sockets to test, two boards ... plus a bunch of other things the soundman plugged that cable into) ... that cable slides in and out like silk, 100 % signal on two boards, two sockets each (control and volume.) No problem, smooth. Fine.

The soundman and I discussed how hard I unplugged it, and it was with less force than you have to use on the actual moog footpedal socket itself. On the pedal, the socket is more stiff like a bass bin socket is sometimes (so dancers don't kick it out.) We discussed the pressures, the torques involved ... I've been plugging in 1/4 inch jacks since my grampa got me a rhodes mk1 when I was 10. I didn't pull it out too hard  when I thought I'd found the sliding point. You have to pull the footpedal part out harder than I pulled it out of the Nord. Yet, that cable itself ... slides like silk on all other jacks we tried. Weird.

With the signal being haywire right from the start, I hope it wasn't a bad round of trs jacks from a supplier, on such a brand new board. I know it came from out of the country. Hey, I not just found, but fixed, a software glitch the night of a major DAW platform release 20 years ago ... 1998 ... and they were able to catch and swap a .dll file like I did online that night and save millions on a cd printing release to stores the next day. You never know. Weird stuff happens. Don't always blame the users. Maybe, even, listen to them. That DAW software, heaped me with rewards back then, It was kinda ... cool, and fun. And they got a hold of ME through the crappy little message board we had to use back then, where they emailed you everyone's emails for the day ... done, till tomorrow. But they leveraged the platform, and even had a presence there for official announcements and such. Just a person, really, following the goings on in the community.

Anyway. Opus du Nore became Opus du where to help the raspberry patch spread. Not much keyboarding inspiration over here this month. No boards anyway, no tines or piano's here anymore.

Thought an update would be interesting (found this out last weekend, actually ,.. still had 30 days to return the immoral cord.) Hope I'm not intruding. It does appear to be an issue, with both jacks, on only just this Nord I had. It was the Nord. Something very wrong with ... that one. I can return the cable now, and be at peace about it, morally. It wasn't the cable. It wasn't the user. That Nord had some sort of serious problem with those trs jacks. Feedback. Cheers.
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Re: Best expression pedal for NS2

Postby Dobby » 22 Aug 2020, 02:00

Chuckle time. This is too good not to relay:

Today, was the day I returned the pedal after writing the above comment this morning. It had to go across town to another location, because, ironically, the same guy at my neighborhood location that had blown me off before, had blown me off again while pedal shopping, badly enough that I had just left the store after being ignored for half an hour, and drove across town and bought the moog for cash at another store location, not even wanting to attach my purchase to my account there. See, I was done doing business with them even before my Nord broke later that night.

Anyway; today ...

Knowing the routine, I just return the pedal. No comment. No discussion. One minor glitch; I had paid cash, and wanted cash back. He had to get a manager for that. No problem. Well, here's where the funny part begins. With the manager over, ok ... I did bring up the Nord. Except, he thinks this is some Nord I've owned for years, bought from who knows where, that his pedal may have just been responsible for wrecking. So, he lawyers up in his discourse, and of course ... could care less about me or my Nord.

So I ask him how one goes about getting a Nord serviced. Remember; he thinks I am the owner of this poor board that needs to be fixed now. He gave me a name of some electronics shop in town. I say, really? Nords you sell, get serviced there?

Now, he seems to think, that I did buy this through them, sometime in the past, but assumes I guess that now it's off warranty. That's how the conversation went, him leading. I'm letting him be helpful here. So, and here's the chuckle coming: he gets rude, and says no ,,, if I want THEM to fix my board (the board that their pedal may have just wrecked) that they send it to another city all the way across my very wide country, to their distributor, and I pay for shipping and repairs. He brought that up, first point. He rubbed it in, literally, maybe as his lawyer way to man handle me over the conversation that had now ensued about the pedal. Try and put me on my heels. His response was literally to sneer at me about how much, how long, how everything it would all be ... on me. Like, being sort of snarky and rude about it. Not his problem. Cares not at all about me or this Nord of mine.

That's when I cracked the punchline: that it was not my board, that it was his board now. One I had just bought from them ... last month, and had been dealing with at one of the other store locations. Under 30 days, I reminded him that I definitely gave them their board back. At that point, I mentioned how the service from them had been abysmal all through the experience too.

The foot in mouth look on his face was priceless. Nice tactic of his; being rude, first up, as a business strategy. At least he seems to think it was appropriate and a strategy. I chuckled about it all the way home. Long drive across town over to that location for me too.

You can't even buy musical instruments anymore I guess. Not with this sort of huge corporate monopoly involved. Anyway. Funny story, hope you laughed along with me at the sordid dark humor of it all. What a nightmare experience this has been. I don't suppose there will be much more for me to say about any of this after this. Can't believe there was this much to say already. I was hoping to be sharing other things here. And really, since they promise a swap board ... but don't have a stage three to swap you ... getting boards shipped across a very large country for service would just leave me with commitments, and no board. Unless I still don't have the right picture on how Nords actually get serviced in Canada. The store guys just play lawyer with you here, and there's no useful information at all in that sort of discourse.

It is what it is. The pedal is back in its evil home where it came from. Nothing more to be done or said. These are just the strange times we live in. :/
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