Nord Grand, neighbour complaint about keybed noise

Everything about the Nord Piano and Grand series; features, specifications, how to operate, and questions about technical issues.
jamino
Posts: 6
Joined: 08 Apr 2020, 16:32
5
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Grand
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Nord Grand, neighbour complaint about keybed noise

Post by jamino »

I think any soundproofing has to correspond to the weight of the object that needs to be soundproofed, in terms of tolerance, density etc. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think rugs or carpet will do much on their own. It needs a heavy and solid base to sit on to fully absorb the vibration I think - with something soft underneath.
Last edited by jamino on 09 Apr 2020, 01:50, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Mr_-G-
Moderator
Posts: 4754
Joined: 18 Aug 2012, 16:48
12
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Stage 2
Has thanked: 1466 times
Been thanked: 1272 times

Re: Nord Grand, neighbour complaint about keybed noise

Post by Mr_-G- »

What about something like this?

User avatar
CountFosco
Posts: 682
Joined: 16 Nov 2016, 11:23
8
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Electro 5
Your Nord Gear #2: Nord Lead A1
Has thanked: 152 times
Been thanked: 259 times
Switzerland

Re: Nord Grand, neighbour complaint about keybed noise

Post by CountFosco »

While you wait for your expensive solution, do a test with the NG on your bed, on top of your fluffiest feather filledest duvet. I'm inclined to agree with Spider, that it's the airborne noise disturbing your neighbour, but I'm sure you can prove it one way or the other with materials you already have.
These users thanked the author CountFosco for the post:
Spider
User avatar
Quai34
Posts: 1878
Joined: 01 Jan 2012, 23:02
13
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Stage 2
Your Nord Gear #2: Nord Lead 1/2/2x
Location: CANADA WINNIPEG
Has thanked: 117 times
Been thanked: 310 times
Contact:
Canada

Re: Nord Grand, neighbour complaint about keybed noise

Post by Quai34 »

Berretje wrote:
Mr_-G- wrote:
jamino wrote: Anyone know anything else I can do?
...
Any other ideas much appreciated.
Change the neighbour! :facepalm:
+1 :thumbup:
No, shoot the neighbour!!!!
Stage 2/C2/NL2X+TC Pedals, Beat Step Pro, 2XMatrix, EMU P2K, TX802, DSI P8/Tetra+H9, P12+TC HoF, D50+PG1000, XV5080,AX keytar, Streichfett, Drumbrute & Impact.Ibanez SR1200+2605, ASS153, G&L L2000,Legacy HSS, Asat Blueboys, Deluxe Savanna
User avatar
Spider
Posts: 1180
Joined: 06 Nov 2012, 12:26
12
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Stage 2 EX
Your Nord Gear #2: Nord Wave
Has thanked: 582 times
Been thanked: 612 times
Contact:
Italy

Re: Nord Grand, neighbour complaint about keybed noise

Post by Spider »

jamino wrote: Anyone know anything else I can do?
The easiest thing is asking for the collaboration of your neighbor.
1- Play the piano (without turning it on) in your usual place, and ask him to concentrate on how much noise comes through.
2- Then remove all the damping, put it directly on the floor, play it and ask if he hears more/less/same noise.
3- Then play it on the bed or sofa, as Countfosco suggested, and ask again.
In these scenarios, the noise produced by the keybed will stay the same, while the vibration transmitted to the floor should vary from maximum to basically zero.
If the level of discomfort perceived by your neighbor is always the same, then the problem is airborne noise, and not floor vibrations.
These users thanked the author Spider for the post:
nordkeys
nordkeys
Posts: 21
Joined: 13 Aug 2019, 17:18
5
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 9 times
United States of America

Re: Nord Grand, neighbour complaint about keybed noise

Post by nordkeys »

Spider wrote:
jamino wrote: Anyone know anything else I can do?
The easiest thing is asking for the collaboration of your neighbor.
1- Play the piano (without turning it on) in your usual place, and ask him to concentrate on how much noise comes through.
2- Then remove all the damping, put it directly on the floor, play it and ask if he hears more/less/same noise.
3- Then play it on the bed or sofa, as Countfosco suggested, and ask again.
In these scenarios, the noise produced by the keybed will stay the same, while the vibration transmitted to the floor should vary from maximum to basically zero.
If the level of discomfort perceived by your neighbor is always the same, then the problem is airborne noise, and not floor vibrations.
This is great advice! I would add that you should not tell your neighbor which test you are doing. And make sure you don't give any other hints. The neighbor needs to be objective for this test to work.
stevei
Posts: 33
Joined: 11 Jan 2020, 03:10
5
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Nord Grand, neighbour complaint about keybed noise

Post by stevei »

When you did the testing and heard it yourself would you complain if you were in their shoes? Reason I ask is this sounds like a very whiny grumpy neighbor. I think a solution would be don't use headphone so then they get the nice sounds of a piano. IMO I can't see the nord grand keys causing that much noise, vibration, sounds, etc. I own one and play it against the wall and no one hears it at all. I know each situation is unique but don't let someone hinder your music!
fieldflower
Patch Creator
Posts: 389
Joined: 27 Sep 2017, 19:39
7
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Electro 5
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 84 times
Sweden

Re: Nord Grand, neighbour complaint about keybed noise

Post by fieldflower »

stevei wrote:When you did the testing and heard it yourself would you complain if you were in their shoes? Reason I ask is this sounds like a very whiny grumpy neighbor. I think a solution would be don't use headphone so then they get the nice sounds of a piano. IMO I can't see the nord grand keys causing that much noise, vibration, sounds, etc. I own one and play it against the wall and no one hears it at all. I know each situation is unique but don't let someone hinder your music!
If complaints during daytime playing I agree.
It must be ok to make some noise during the day.
I live in an apartment and play loud enough to support full-on (unamplified) singing during normal hours. Switch between a bunch of instruments.

But if the complaints is for playing during nighttime it might just be a valid complaint even if it's just keybed noise.
User avatar
CountFosco
Posts: 682
Joined: 16 Nov 2016, 11:23
8
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Electro 5
Your Nord Gear #2: Nord Lead A1
Has thanked: 152 times
Been thanked: 259 times
Switzerland

Re: Nord Grand, neighbour complaint about keybed noise

Post by CountFosco »

jamino wrote:Will report back next week to let you know whether it works...
Hi Jamino, got an update? I'm sure people could benefit from your experience here.
stageCustom
Posts: 40
Joined: 14 Apr 2020, 14:14
5
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Stage 3
Your Nord Gear #2: Other Brand
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 9 times
Germany

Re: Nord Grand, neighbour complaint about keybed noise

Post by stageCustom »

Hm, bad to read about this effect.

I had a similar problem with an E-drum, where I had to hit the bassdrum very hard to trigger at all. After some trials the root cause turned out to be simple: my floor.

To understand the effect, change perspective. My floor, as yours, is my floor and my neighbours ceiling. Viewed from a distance ... this is a typical structure of a membrane, which we all know from speakers or microphones. Only the source of excitation varies.

Now, not all floors are the same. If you step on it, or bump with some rubber hammer, each floor will sound differently. Standing on it and pinging I will hear a little bit, but living below it can be like visiting a rock concert. Tennis raisers, noise eaters and the like will probably do little if anything: They won't annihilate the downward impulse your instrument created, less divert it (conservation of momentum and energy); they may vary loudness by a few dB into both directions, but your neighbour will need some tenths of dB in change. And yes, this can be dramatic downstairs even with "little actions" from a keybed.

Here are a few things you can try to do, which are close to being free:
  • negotiate with your neighbour, as has been proposed: he can't make you stop music, he hasn't to bear each and everything (from my countries jurisdiction)
  • using a pinger (foot, hammer, ...) find a different place in your home
  • exploit daytime variation: environmental noise changes by about 30 - 80 dB depending on your location during the day, and the more environmental silence we experience, the louder this "f*****g pianist" will appear to be
  • separate yourself and your neighbour: use his/her times of absentia, play in a room where he/she hardly ever is underneath you, play in a different place and so on
To identify potentially more suitible places in your home try to envision the following:
  • view the house from outside, with the floors having been removed
  • substitute the real floors by a trampoline, rubber or soap-foamed surface
  • tension of the imaginary hanging surface can vary, depending on the walls overall layout
  • places, which might vary tension considerably, can be good alternative places to investigate
  • verify with the pinger
  • prefer places, where the resonance (sound) of the floor shifts to lower frequencies (we hear them less strong, under 80 Hz, roughly)
Last edited by stageCustom on 22 Apr 2020, 09:31, edited 9 times in total.
These users thanked the author stageCustom for the post:
Spider
Post Reply