Share your complete Nord Stage 3 programs/patches including sample sets (nsmp files) used, including mp3 previews.
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Upload a MP3 file where you play some notes using your sample.
Click the "PLACE INLINE" button after uploading the MP3 sample in order to automatically create a Flash MP3 player in your post!
Also check the Forum Rules, in particular rule #6 about the sharing of programs and samples.

Re: Layering 2 preset sounds

Postby ajstan » 13 Jan 2020, 22:09

It's interesting how frequently there are posts on this board that end up at: "Clavia doesn't do what I want them to do, therefore they must be malevolent or incompetent (or both)."
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Re: Layering 2 preset sounds


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Re: Layering 2 preset sounds

Postby hilbilly parade » 14 Jan 2020, 00:41

I hope that is not how I am coming across. I never said any of that. In a nutshell $4000 is a huge investment in a perfect world a few more things would be nice that's all..
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Re: Layering 2 preset sounds

Postby ericL » 14 Jan 2020, 06:22

Share with me the sound you're trying to make or the two programs you'd like to combine and let's talk about how to leverage the instrument to make that happen. I've been very impressed with what I have been able to coax out of both NS2 and NS3. Getting to know the instrument is part of what's required to get past the perceived barrier of "it can't combine programs so it's not meeting my needs."
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Re: Layering 2 preset sounds

Postby hilbilly parade » 14 Jan 2020, 23:04

Personally the only thing i really wish for is a synth section that allows me to combine a sample and synth based sound (on the same panel of course). If osc 1 could be a " sample or synth based sound" then a osc configuration option to mix in another "sample or synth based sound on osc 2".

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Re: Layering 2 preset sounds

Postby ericL » 15 Jan 2020, 05:44

Still waiting for a real example vs. generic complaints.
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Re: Layering 2 preset sounds

Postby hilbilly parade » 15 Jan 2020, 15:49

I didn't start the thread on this.. Not to be blunt but I have been layering/coaxing out sounds since the casio days 30 years ago ( now i am showing my age lol )i can get all the sounds i need from my ns3 I would just be able to make things sound even more powerful with that option..
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Re: Layering 2 preset sounds

Postby analogika » 15 Jan 2020, 17:31

hilbilly parade wrote:I didn't realize the parts electronics software etc were made of gold My fault... These boards don't cost that much to make as per usual the public is overcharged for many things in life but maybe its just me... I love this board but just like any "high end " piece of musical equipment we pay too much...

This is just bizarre.

Components cost nothing, therefore every dollar we pay on the end device is too much?

Back when I was more in tune with the Hi-Fi business, the rule of thumb was that after all margins and overhead, the cost of a part would need to be about x10 on the end product, all other things equal.

So adding a $10 part instead of a $1 part would be about 90$ on top for the customer. Adding an extra 50€ in components and circuit board would be about a €500 premium. (The exact balances and factors may vary, but the basic idea is still true.)

I’m pretty sure that manufacturers including Nord tend to start with end price and a feature list and work backwards from there to see what can be implemented at what trade-off, for the best balance in the final product.
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Re: Layering 2 preset sounds

Postby hilbilly parade » 15 Jan 2020, 17:58

Your putting words in my mouth.. I have many a friend who have worked in small and big music stores.. depending on how much and what you are ordering the markup can be pretty substantial...
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Re: Layering 2 preset sounds

Postby anotherscott » 20 Jan 2020, 03:48

LewTheKeysGuy wrote:Technically the reference to yamaha and korg isn't correct. the reason behind this is the motif XS and XF, Korg Krome and Kronos, even the Roland Fantom, have the ability to merge patches together in live sets or combis regardless of the engines used, I should know, I've owned a few lol.

The nords don't operate like this due to two constraints.

The Nord Stage DOES kind of operate this way.

On the NS3, a Program is equivalent to what Krome/Kronos calls a Combi, or what the Motif XS/XF called a Performance or a Master. Look at it this way:

Korg Combi = up to 16 internal or external sounds
Yamaha Performance = up to 4 internal sounds
Yamaha Performance placed into a Master = up to 4 internal sounds plus up to 8 external sounds

Nord Program = up to 2 sounds (panels), but each of these sounds in turn can contain a piano sound, an organ sound, a synth/sample sound, and an external sound. So instead of looking at it as a combination of 2 sounds, you could also say that Nord Program = up to 6 internal sounds plus up to 2 external sounds (with the additional qualification that the 6 internal sounds can be up to two piano library sounds, up to two organ sounds, and up to two synth/sample sounds).But no matter how you look at it, a single Nord Program is already a combination of multiple sounds.

Here's the important part. It is true that you cannot combine two Nord Programs, but you similarly cannot combine two Korg Combis or two Yamaha Performances/Masters. Don't forget that a Nord Program is not a single sound like a Korg Program is or like a Yamaha Voice is... rather a Nord Program is already a combination of multiple sounds (up to 8... 2 synth programs, 2 pianos, 2 organs, and 2 external MIDI sounds). And on all these platforms, you cannot combine one combination of multiple sounds with another combination of multiple sounds. (Okay, not counting the rare cases where a single Yamaha Voice or Korg program consist of multiple sound at the Element/Oscillator level.)

Now, let's get back to the OP's question: "I have found 2 different built in patches that I want to layer" --

First, let's assume that by "patches" you're talking about programs. Take a look at what is in each panel... you may find that all the sonic components you care about are located on just one of the two panels (maybe even only one of the two panels is sounding by default), and then you can combine the one panel from the first program with the one panel from the second to create a new program that contains what you're looking for from those two patches, as maxpiano alluded to. There are plenty of Nord Programs that default to only one active panel, so there is a reasonable chance you can get exactly what you want this way.

Second, let's instead assume that by "patches" you're talking about "synth presets." Well, then again you're in luck, because you can combine any two synth presets, by putting one on one panel and one on the other.

Third, we'll elaborate on the approach Lew suggested, of sampling the sound combination so it becomes a single sound. This approach has numerous significant limitations, but it may be useful anyway. Lew is right that you probably don't want to include the pianos in this approach (largely because they will not sound nearly as good in a single-velocity sample), and as long as--between the two programs you're trying to combine--you don't actually need to play more than two piano sounds simultaneously, there's no need to worry about this, since you can pick up to two piano sounds and copy them into your new combined program anyway (again, as maxpiano alluded to) or recreate them (piano sounds don't have a ton of parameters). Similarly, it is unlikely that, between the two sounds you're trying to combine, you'll need more than two organ sounds, so the same applies, you can manually bring whichever organ sounds you want (up to two of them) to your new combined program. (Sampling organ sounds can be problematic because you can't effectively sample, for example, the percussion or the leslie and retain the original playing characteristics.) The most likely place you're going to want to combine more than two of something is in the sample/synth sections. Here's where you could try what Lew suggested... resample one pair of synth sounds into a single sample set, resample the other pair of synth sounds (assuming you do need the maximum of four) into another single sample set, and then you can layer those two sample sets to get all four sounds. Maybe. It will work better with some kinds of sounds than others. The trickiest part will probably be reproducing the effects. You're still limited in how many effects you can apply at once, and once you merge two sounds, you won't be able to put an effect on one sound without putting the identical effect on the sound you merged it with. An alternate approach could be to sample the sound with the effect you want, so the effect is "baked into" the sample itself. But it will likely change the sound... for example if you take a sound that was put through a phaser and sample it with the phaser enabled, when you play back the sampled version, you'll have all the notes behaving with their own phase shift effect instead of all sharing the same one. And some effects, like an echo that happens after you let go of a note, can't really be made part of the sample at all. Modulations within the synth presets themselves can cause similar problems. So, as I said, there are significant limitations. But there are some cases where it could conceivably work.

Fourth possible solution... take advantage of the EXT functions, which are currently unused (as they naturally are in all factory programs), and instead of sampling two sounds to turn them into one sound, you can sample up to two of the sound and still keep them separate by sampling into, for example, an iPhone or iPad app, and then use the EXT section to trigger whatever additional sounds you need from that app. You can then use the Nord's usual mechanism to trigger two of the sample/synth sounds, and the EXT functions to trigger two more of them, re-sampled into your other device. For the re-sampling, choose the sounds that least need effects, because if you want them to have effects, you'll have to get them elsewhere (i.e. from another iOS app).

In any resampling scenario, one of the other things you'll have to think about when deciding which sound will be where and how you will set it up is whether these are sounds that stop playing when you let go of a key versus ones that gradually decay when you let go

This isn't all easy, and won't necessarily get you what you want. Without knowing which sounds you're trying to combine, I can't tell you whether a given approach will work, or will at least get you something close, or if you barely have a prayer of getting what you're after. But these are at least some things to consider, and even thinking about how these different ideas work may help you better understand how the NS3 does things.
Last edited by anotherscott on 20 Jan 2020, 04:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Layering 2 preset sounds

Postby anotherscott » 20 Jan 2020, 05:22

maxpiano wrote:
hilbilly parade wrote:Yes unfortunately one of the drawbacks. If i could ask one more thing of the ns3 its patch layering. I can only imagine the possibilities.


I assume you (all) understand that what you are asking for implies doubling the NS engines i.e. like having another 2 "hidden" panels fully available, right? Not even on other models such as e.g. the Motif you could layer the Combis/LiveSets when they include a full configuration/usage of the keyboard resources (because NS Programs are equivalent to "combis" of its 6 engines + 2x extern + effects).
I just saw that you had already put more concisely a bunch of what I just posted. ;-)

BTW, I saw something somewhere that said that, when Nord developed the Stage 3, they discussed whether to support 4 panels or seamless sound switching. (I believe the way seamless switching works is through two "hidden" panels which allow them to essentially play 4 panels worth of sound during the times the seamless switching is happening.) I think they made the right decision. Though I guess it would have been cool if they made it a user preference, where you could enable whichever one you wanted.
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