General Discussion of the Nord Stage (EX), Nord Stage 2 (EX), and Nord Stage 3 Synths, FAQ, Troubleshooting etc.

Re: Nord Stage 3 - mixed feelings after purchase

Postby WannitBBBad » 12 Aug 2019, 19:58

RichardG wrote:...I compared my NS2 to NS3 wrt reverb and found that on NS2 the reverb is also *before* the Leslie. But it's not so prominent and sound so "swirly". I put in a request for moving the reverb after the Leslie but apparently it's authentic to put it before so this won't happen.

"Authentic" would be to have the reverb after the Leslie like any other application of the reverb effect. The Leslie 122 RV had a separate reverb amp and stationary speaker in the cabinet - it was not pre-Leslie, it was applied in parallel to the Leslie rotating speakers. As after-market reverb units were added to the Hammond B3, C3 and others, it went through the Leslie rotating speakers and some songs highlighted that new effect, but that's an effect separate from the application of reverb - capturing the effect of putting a Leslie or any other sound source in a room, hall, cavern, and so on.
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Re: Nord Stage 3 - mixed feelings after purchase


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Re: Nord Stage 3 - mixed feelings after purchase

Postby stringtapper » 12 Aug 2019, 20:04

About the reverb before Leslie issue:

Why do some people say it's the "authentic" way to do it?

https://www.keyboardmag.com/lessons/roc ... -and-licks

“For authenticity, whatever reverb you use should be inserted pre-rotary effect, and should be of the spring type,”says Andy Burton.
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Re: Nord Stage 3 - mixed feelings after purchase

Postby RichardG » 12 Aug 2019, 23:15

WannitBBBad wrote:"Authentic" would be to have the reverb after the Leslie like any other application of the reverb effect. The Leslie 122 RV had a separate reverb amp and stationary speaker in the cabinet - it was not pre-Leslie, it was applied in parallel to the Leslie rotating speakers. As after-market reverb units were added to the Hammond B3, C3 and others, it went through the Leslie rotating speakers and some songs highlighted that new effect, but that's an effect separate from the application of reverb - capturing the effect of putting a Leslie or any other sound source in a room, hall, cavern, and so on.

As stringtapper showed in the article, that's what I've heard about being authentic.
The spring reverb was in the organ and went from there into the Leslie.
It's my personal taste that doesn't like it; it's sounds like a phaser to me (more so in the NS3 than NS2 IIRC) and I personally wouldn't use that with organ except as a "special effect".
I'd either use the reverb to fatten the sound a bit without really influencing it or with reggae/dub style where a single chop gets a load of reverb.
(which doesn't work on the NS3 either on the same panel, not like the delay as Pablo here once showed me -> turning the dry/wet knob to 12 o'clock and back; this lets the delay ring out. The reverb is just cut off when you do that)
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Re: Nord Stage 3 - mixed feelings after purchase

Postby analogika » 12 Aug 2019, 23:44

The logic, I believe, is as follows:

ALL organs that had a reverb tank standard, or fitted after-market (as both of the B-3s I regularly have access to — one of them my own — and my old A-100, sadly destroyed in a fire, and the P-100, do), have the spring reverb tank sitting in the organ and BEFORE the Leslie.

If you want a reverb for authentic-sounding room or hall, then of course you want it AFTER the Leslie.

If you MUST make a choice between the two when designing your program architecture on the new keyboard:
Opt for the first scenario, and the second one is usually easily taken care of by the live sound engineer in most situations the machine is primarily designed for, or you have the option of using an external reverb unit (if the effect isn't close enough through a Leslie in the first place).
Opt for the second, and there is absolutely no way to achieve the first without using an external Leslie sim.

I, for one, am quite glad that they opted for the first one.

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Re: Nord Stage 3 - mixed feelings after purchase

Postby WannitBBBad » 13 Aug 2019, 02:24

RichardG wrote:As stringtapper showed in the article, that's what I've heard about being authentic.

Sorry RichardG, I wasn't criticizing your comment but just the feedback you received - from the discussion you can tell there are different perspectives on what would be authentic to the Hammond/Leslie mix. Take care.
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Re: Nord Stage 3 - mixed feelings after purchase

Postby anotherscott » 13 Aug 2019, 02:44

There were four possibilities for Hammond reverb:

* organs with built-in reverb units had that effect (via a spring reverb unit) before the leslie. That effect is currently emulated. Kind of. (The available reverb effects don't actually include spring.)

* leslies with built in reverb units sent the reverb effect out separately to its own non-spinning speaker. That would require parallel effects paths... organ to reverb, organ to rotary effect, and a way to combine those two signal paths post-processing. AFAIK, there is no way to duplicate this effect internal to the Nord, you'd have to use external processing.

* With no reverb unit but simply a Leslie in a room, you get the natural reverberation of the room. This is basically automatically duplicated by, well, putting your amp/speaker in a room. Better if you're running the Leslie effect in stereo, rather than running mono. You should get something approaching the same natural reverb you would have as if you had a Leslie in the same room.

* when mic'd up and recorded (or put through a big PA), the sound engineer could conceivably have put artificial reverb on the post-Leslie effect through a send from the mixing board. That option is also available on the Nord, if you are likewise running it through a mixing board and have reverb available in your mix system.

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Re: Nord Stage 3 - mixed feelings after purchase

Postby Mr_-G- » 13 Aug 2019, 17:27

analogika wrote:Opt for the first scenario, and the second one is usually easily taken care of by the live sound engineer in most situations the machine is primarily designed for, or you have the option of using an external reverb unit (if the effect isn't close enough through a Leslie in the first place).
Opt for the second, and there is absolutely no way to achieve the first without using an external Leslie sim.


Very true, but it could also be an option (pre/post rotor via some menu), making everybody happy.
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Re: Nord Stage 3 - mixed feelings after purchase

Postby analogika » 13 Aug 2019, 20:46

Yes, but as I understand it, making it an option in the Stage 3 was not possible; it required a definite engineering decision during the design process.
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Re: Nord Stage 3 - mixed feelings after purchase

Postby LeftyBass68 » 14 Aug 2019, 17:29

After much tweaking I finally have a useable NS3 organ sound.Side by side A/B/C'd with an NS2EX,and an Electro2.It requires all of the gain the amp panel can muster,running through no amp sims and the drive at about 9:30/10 o clock.Bass and highs are dimed.Mids are flat.Not as much gain on an NS3 as the other Nords!
If I have an A100 1/4" out to the Ventilator hooked up,it's easy to dial in the max amount before clipping the pedal input, with the TrekII OBL-2 interface.Sounds spectacular!
None of these Nords will drive the pedal that easy.They all need a lot of gain to resemble an actual Hammond sound.My Stage EX could clip the Vent,the NS2EX can clip the Vent,NS3 simply won't.
Given the C2D will drive a Leslie with it's 1/4" high level output( I do this with a 142),why is the gain structure on NS3 B3 so wimpy? The Vox and Farf seem to have proper gain?
Nord knows many of us prefer Ventilator and real Leslies,are they trying to get us to use the Nord Leslie sim by purposely dropping some gain?
Nord,I'm telling you your Leslie sim will NEVER sound as good as a Neo Ventilator!Period.Now give us back our gain structure you clowns!

I mix reverb into rotary at the junction of both Hammond A100 amps,the 'verb dial.On chorale the spring reverb sounds amazing,on tremelo not so much.
Running a stage or hall or plate verb through a rotary is a joke.A spring is the only thing that works,and guess who invented that puppy?
Nord needs to rework the Stage3 organ gain,and add a spring 'verb to the menu.Running the speaker out of a Fender Twin Reverb into a 147 sure sounds great!
Not enough gain on the 'virtual' twin on the sim/eq panel! Not even close.

Holidays eh? You can bet other manufacturers like Viscount etc. are way ahead of Nord on the B3.
Not a large enough menu,not enough gain,average Leslie sim,reverb choices limited,not an upgrade at all IMO.
Having to work this hard just to get back to where the Stage EX was?
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Re: Nord Stage 3 - mixed feelings after purchase

Postby anotherscott » 14 Aug 2019, 18:25

LeftyBass68 wrote:My Stage EX could clip the Vent,the NS2EX can clip the Vent,NS3 simply won't.

Have you tried the Kybd/Guitar switch on the Vent? IIRC, the guitar position boosts the gain.
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