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Re: Very quick question re: Mono output for Wave

Postby Hanon_CTS » 05 Jan 2012, 16:23

Hello yeloop,
No, the Wave doesn't have a summing output.
You have to sum it with a mixer (preferred).
Cheers, Hanon
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Re: Very quick question re: Mono output for Wave


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Re: Mono Output?

Postby pablomastodon » 11 Jan 2012, 06:26

As DJKeys quickly found out, the Y-cable summing of two sides of a stereo signal does NOT always yield results which are desirable. Arbitrarily "mixing" via this means can cause all sorts of weird phase cancellation effects and usually sounds like @#*@#%, depending on the nature of the timbre(s) being played.

Stereo signal is provided for studio situations and for those rare live situations where the house sound system is stereo. For most common live situations where only a mono send is needed, just take one side or the other -- it doesn't really matter which. This is not a situation which can be compared to ordering a steak at a restaurant and cutting it two pieces when it arrives to the table only to throw half in the garbage. With the exception of programs with extreme tremolo/panning effects in use, you won't really be losing any meaningful portions of the audio signal, and you'll be sparing your ears from having to listen to a phase-cancelled mess.

Anyone wanting a longer, more drawn-out discussion of this can reply to this post and I'll supplement, but that's the heart of the matter. I should also point out that, although I am employed as Nord Tech Support USA/Canada, views and opinions expressed here are not official corporate policy either of Nord or of AM&S, their US distributor, but my own views and opinions.

Pablo Mastodon
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Re: Mono Output?

Postby DJKeys » 11 Jan 2012, 06:46

Pablo has hit the nail on the head. I have done a lot of experimentation with this and except for stereo panning and some other effects the signal out of the L and R jacks is essentially the same. I record the Wave in Stereo but play live in mono with just one output and it sounds fine.
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Re: Mono Output?

Postby Hanon_CTS » 11 Jan 2012, 07:11

Interesting,
I can understand this for a simple synth waveform.
But, if you used a stereo sample that was recorded hard panned with different elements Left and Right.
Using just one output instead of both would yield satisfactory results?

I'm puzzled by this part of the manual then:
Nord Wave Manual wrote: Features
on page 5
The Nord Wave is also a true stereo synthesizer, the signal paths for
the left and the right outputs are separated at the very core in the
sound engine


Cheers, Hanon
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Re: Mono Output?

Postby pablomastodon » 11 Jan 2012, 07:54

As DJKeys found out, it is using both outputs into mono via a Y-cable which is much more likely to yield unsatisfactory results.

Let's take some real world examples: a piano and a rack of toms. You mic each in stereo. Both mics will pick up both ends of both instruments, but there will be phase differences due to distance traveled from string/tom to mic. In order to create an authentic stereo playback it is necessary to hear both sides. But you still aren't really losing anything, other than perspective, by giving up either one of the two sides.

In my view, it is natural to have this sort of gut feeling that by not taking both sides of the signal, one is somehow missing out on something, but properly analyzed that is not actually the case. It's more like covering up one ear...you still hear everything. The difference is you are hearing it from only one perspective, instead of from the two perspectives which stereo would provide. The point is, generally speaking, you are not actually missing any content, not when we are talking about ordinary real world examples.

However, sometimes the electronic instrument world takes real world examples to the extreme, as in the case of a Fender Rhodes on hard panning tremolo. In that kind of a case, the oscillating volumes of the two sides of the stereo field, 180 degrees out of phase with one another, will result in completely changing the character of the resulting sound when you remove either side. Those kinds of things do not occur with acoustic instruments -- the halves of the stereo field are not so extremely segregated from one another.

Understanding how and why these things can occur, and that they occur only rarely in particular circumstances, will help one to avoid those situations in one of three ways: don't use those kinds of effects settings when being forced to run a single mono feed, or run both sides of the signal, or live with it. Sometimes "mistakes" make for new creativity! Also, in many of these cases (I think), the issue is not so much that the house system is mono (which it usually is), but that the mixing board is cramped for space and the engineer doesn't want to give the keyboards two channels for one instrument.

There will be very few situations in which taking only one side of the stereo feed will yield unsatisfactory results...

Bless,

Pablo
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