General Discussion of the Nord Stage (EX), Nord Stage 2 (EX), Nord Stage 3, and Nord Stage 4 Synths, FAQ, Troubleshooting etc.

Nord Stage 3 Bug with Sustain Pedal When Switching Sounds?

Postby ahild » 25 Jun 2018, 20:29

Is it just me? Am I crazy? For the life of me I can't get a handle on this issue with the sustain pedal continuing to sustain when switching from one programmed sound to the next. Unless you lift your foot off the sustain a fair amount before you do the switch OR if you hold it (it would seem) straight through and then release and grab it again when needed, unless all that is done it sustains the next sound which is often NOT desired. It seems to be the logical thing would be by default to ALWAYS have the Stage 3 reseal/kill the sustain pedal when the sound is switch and you then MUST depress the sustain pedal again AFTER switching IF you want sustain again. It makes no sens to have the default be IF you are holding the sustain to remain sustaining once switched to the next sound. Am I missing something is there a setting somewhere to stop this behavior?
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Nord Stage 3 Bug with Sustain Pedal When Switching Sounds?


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Re: Nord Stage 3 Bug with Sustain Pedal When Switching Sound

Postby baekgaard » 26 Jun 2018, 00:08

The sustain pedal holds the "old" sound as long as you hold it down. Sometimes the new sound also sustains, but often it does not -- it's a bit random at times.

My view is that the keyboard should sustain whatever sounds you play as long as you hold it down -- new and old. That is also how a real piano works :-) I think what you're asking for is more like a sostenuto pedal function?

There appears to be some minor bugs with respect to how it works in seamless mode, so it's a bit inconsistent currently.
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Re: Nord Stage 3 Bug with Sustain Pedal When Switching Sound

Postby anotherscott » 26 Jun 2018, 00:19

If you want the sustain pedal to continue to hold your "old" sound after switching to the new, but you do NOT want your new-sound notes to sustain, you should be able to accomplish that by switching to a sound that does not have SUSTPED enabled (or if it does, click that button OFF before you start playing new notes). This would be logical, anyway.
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Re: Nord Stage 3 Bug with Sustain Pedal When Switching Sound

Postby ajstan » 26 Jun 2018, 02:07

My experience has been that the sustain pedal works exactly as I would expect it to work. If the sustain pedal is down, any notes I am holding down or subsequently play are held until I lift my foot. This includes notes I’ve played before and after switching programs.

I’ve typically only held over either one synth or piano sound with Seamless Transitions, so I haven’t run into the intermittent problem @baekgaard mentioned, but it’s good to know so I can be on the lookout for it.

On a separate note, the Seamless Transitions with the hold is a great way to have three synth engines playing at once. For example, I am able to start a sustaining string note on program 1, press the sustain pedal, then switch to program 2 and have two other synth sounds to play while the sound from program 1 continues. Of course, as @anotherscott mentioned, I have the sustain pedal turned off for the synth on program 2. Still, it’s pretty cool for held notes/chords, loops, or intro samples.
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Re: Nord Stage 3 Bug with Sustain Pedal When Switching Sound

Postby ahild » 04 Jul 2018, 14:48

Still I get the concept you all are saying and appreciate all the input and agree that if the sustain pedal is held you would want it to remain held when switching to the next sound, indeed I agree. I still do find it a bit sluggish and/or buggy. It would seem that there are times when I release the sustain pedal very quickly and "just milliseconds" before the switch but definitely before the switch and then the next stuff I play is sustained continuously unless I press and release the sustain pedal again and as I said I definitely release the sustain pedal "before" the switch just very very slightly before. It seems you have to be very aware of releasing the pedal, in what is in my mind is, a fair amount before the switch in order to avoid that and one should not have to be spending brain power trying to remain conscious of purposefully having to release the sustain pedal far earlier then one would normal desire to just to avoid that. Admittedly I am talking milliseconds here but still. I have a Yamaha keyboard that does the same function, seamless transitions and it will hold the last chord/note etc. once a sound is switched until the pedal is again released. however the Yamaha never glitches when you release the pedal just milliseconds before making the switch it "never" accidentally sustains the next played notes once the switch is made as long as you release it before the switch but you can do it just the slightest bit before, it seems you need to be aware and do it a bit earlier (release the pedal) then one would expect at times before the switch in order to avoid it with the Nord, Hence in comparison the to the Yamaha the Nord is very much sluggish in this regard. What should really be happening is that the the "last" notes/chord held before the switch should be held if depressing the sustain pedal "but' every concurrent note should not be unless the pedal is released and depressed again, this solves the problem, that's how Yamaha works. Also in reference to this kind of bug is another that is somewhat related is another controller not being reset when switching sounds, if you use the bend bar on an active sound/program and bend the pitch but do not return the pitch bend fully to the "0" point before switching sounds AND the next sound you switch to has a sound active on it that has the pitch bend function engaged on it "it" will be out of pitch and can't be reset by moving the pitch again until after switching back to the sound many times. Again an issue of the controllers not, by default, getting reset. Yes, I do understand that IF I programmed the following sounds to "Not" have the pitch bend activated on any sound or in the case of the sustain issue to "not' have the sustain pedal function activated on any sound that follows that the issue would not happen, but that is not an acceptable solution "if" you want these activated on the sound that follows. You shouldn't have to have them programmed to be deactivated just to avoid the problem and then remember every time you switch to the new sound that you then need to physically have to activate them once having switched to the next sound just to utilize them again. I'm still stumped, I'm telling you there is something quirky there, a lag, sluggishness. And the pitch controllers definitely need to be automatically reset every time.
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Re: Nord Stage 3 Bug with Sustain Pedal When Switching Sound

Postby ahild » 04 Jul 2018, 14:59

Another words, yes, sure, in the case of the Nord's concept every note should be held when changing to another sound if you are continually holding sown the sustain pedal when doing so, but what is happening for me is that IF I release the sustain pedal before switching sounds BUT it is not released far enough ahead before the switch then the Nord is latching onto the sustain controller message and not catching the release message and continually sustain on the notes played once the switch is made "even" IF I no longer have the sustain pedal depressed, very annoying. It's a bug with the "speed" of the controller data, same stuff happens when working with midi on computers of your midi interface is sluggish etc. etc. Releasing the pedal just milliseconds before the switch it would seem on the Nord does not allow the Nord enough time to process the controller function of sustain release to get issued in time, it isn't quick enough. I'm definitely releasing it before, just real quick, I've tested it again and again, only happens on the Nord.
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Re: Nord Stage 3 Bug with Sustain Pedal When Switching Sound

Postby baekgaard » 04 Jul 2018, 16:05

@ahild, I'm not sure I caught all the details of your 606-word-long-one-paragraph post above :?

But if I get the gist of it, you're saying that 1) if you play a chord, hold down sustain, and then release sustain just milliseconds before changing to another program, then the new program starts in sustain-down mode until you press and release sustain again. Also, 2) if you use the pitch bender on a program and change to another while holding the bender, and then release the bender after the new program starts, any new notes will start up "bended".

As said previously, I have noted inconsistencies in the sustain state after changing to a new program (sometimes it starts in sustain-up mode even if I hold down the pedal -- i.e. roughly the opposite of your issue), and have reported this to Nord previously. The error you report is something I only remember seeing in similar conditions on the earlier releases. Have you upgraded to the latest OS on you NS3?

As for the pitch bend issue, then I can reproduce that here in some cases too -- although I have to change back to the old program (the one in the seamless buffer). I've reported it to Nord already.
Last edited by baekgaard on 04 Jul 2018, 16:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nord Stage 3 Bug with Sustain Pedal When Switching Sound

Postby anotherscott » 04 Jul 2018, 21:01

ahild wrote:It would seem that there are times when I release the sustain pedal very quickly and "just milliseconds" before the switch but definitely before the switch and then the next stuff I play is sustained continuously unless I press and release the sustain pedal again and as I said I definitely release the sustain pedal "before" the switch just very very slightly before.

Are you using a simple on-off sustain pedal? Or a continuous pedal (i.e. Nord's triple pedal)?

ahild wrote:What should really be happening is that the the "last" notes/chord held before the switch should be held if depressing the sustain pedal "but' every concurrent note should not be unless the pedal is released and depressed again, this solves the problem, that's how Yamaha works.

I could see arguments for either approach, but regadless, Nord's implementation seems buggy. Sometimes while holding down the sustain pedal and switching to a new program (which has SUSTPED enabled), the new sound will start immediately sustaining, and other times it doesn't. I don't know whether or not there is a pattern, i.e. if it varies depending on which engines are active in the old and new programs and whether those engines has SUSTPED enabled or not in both the old and new programs, that kind of thing. But it does seem like something they need to get sorted out.
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Re: Nord Stage 3 Bug with Sustain Pedal When Switching Sound

Postby baekgaard » 04 Jul 2018, 23:19

Apart from the previously mentioned bugs, the sustain pedal should work as a sustain pedal, not a sostenuto pedal :-)
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Re: Nord Stage 3 Bug with Sustain Pedal When Switching Sound

Postby Quai34 » 05 Jul 2018, 10:55

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