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Piano 3 tale of woe

Postby greg-b » 12 May 2018, 04:48

Greetings everyone. First post here, having benefited very much from browsing this forum over the last few months - so thank you all. I wanted to share my somewhat painful Piano 3 experience and ask some advice.

I purchased a Piano 3 second hand, unseen, back in January and in retrospect I have come to rue this decision. The piano arrived with an exceptionally bad case of the "knocking key" syndrome across multiple keys/octaves. Just sixteen months old, it had been used in a church environment with IEMs, and the seller therefore wasn't aware of the issue (and I believe him). To his credit, he offered to either have it back or pay for the repair, and I doubled down by choosing the latter (having sunk money into shipping and insurance). Mistake.

We only have one Nord service centre in this small corner of the world, which it was sent to. The standard repair, ie the felt strip installed under the keybed was performed. The piano came back to me but it was only marginally better, and multiple keys still knocked on return. I sent it back a second time and initially got quite a negative response from the repair centre, who claimed not to be able to find an issue. Eventually they admitted there was a problem and went to Nord for advice. In the end, the felt strip on top of the keys, under the top of the case, was deemed to be the issue. The repair involved dismantling and reassembling the entire keybed. I was without the piano for a massive three months in total, and the complete lack of communication from the repairer (except when I emailed them, thereby increasingly feeling like a pain in the a**) was hugely frustrating.

I now have the piano back and the key knocking is completely gone, which is good. HOWEVER, the keybed is uneven to play, with several keys noticeably quieter in response to the same velocity than adjacent keys, and for which it is impossible to reach full volume even with extreme (and unnatural) velocities.

I am unsure whether a degree of unevenness is usual for these Fatar keybeds, having now read a lot of the criticisms online of them, and whether I need to be "that guy" and send it back a third time. I love the sound of the piano and its dynamic expressiveness, but the unevenness is getting me down and distinctly attenuating the joy I'm getting from the instrument. All that, allied to a large dose of buyer's remorse and general self-criticism!

Any advice much appreciated.

Kind regards,

Greg
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Piano 3 tale of woe


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Re: Piano 3 tale of woe

Postby SteveNordP3 » 12 May 2018, 12:20

Very sorry to hear this and I empathize. Sadly, the Fatar keybed is an horrifically weak link in an otherwise Herculean chain. If you're worried about being "that guy" - don't. If you want to keep it, talk to the repair shop or even better, Nord directly. If you don't want to keep it, see if the seller will still be open to the buy back offer or just sell for whatever you can get and don't look back. A third option if you're not gigging with it would be to use a different keyboard controller.

Again - very sorry. That keybed choice baffles me. Thoroughly detracts from the joy of the greatest piano sounds on the market. Wish you the very best whatever you decide to do.

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Re: Piano 3 tale of woe

Postby jefsco » 12 May 2018, 16:31

i sent an email to nord asking how they changed the design of the piano4 to address the knocking issue on the piano3.
the reponse was that it was fixed in the piano3 and was no longer an issue.
i would consider placing felt under the keybed more of a temporary fix, and not addressing a design problem.

hope you successfully resolve your issues!

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Re: Piano 3 tale of woe

Postby Quai34 » 12 May 2018, 22:42

jefsco wrote:i sent an email to nord asking how they changed the design of the piano4 to address the knocking issue on the piano3.
the reponse was that it was fixed in the piano3 and was no longer an issue.
i would consider placing felt under the keybed more of a temporary fix, and not addressing a design problem.

hope you successfully resolve your issues!

jeff


What? So, just extra felt is their solution? Whooo, I saw so many issues with the Stage 3 keybed that It's going to stop any willingness to try the Piano 4 then...
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Re: Piano 3 tale of woe

Postby greg-b » 13 May 2018, 07:41

Thanks all. I guess I'll have to go for "round three" and see if it's third time lucky. My reluctance to do this is centred around the likelihood of being without an instrument again for an extended period. I'm rapidly running out of favours as to keyboards to borrow from friends, as a bare minimum for my sons to practice on.

As to selling it on, I'd struggle to do that in good conscience since I'm aware the keybed isn't right.

Anyway, appreciate your perspectives and sympathy!
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Re: Piano 3 tale of woe

Postby baekgaard » 15 May 2018, 10:22

Greg,

As far as I know, the Fatar keyboard is calibrated in such a way that the response of all keys are equal. I think this is stored somehow on a separate chip on the keyboard, and it is done by Nord at keyboard assembly. Some time ago, there was a video posted that shows the assembly process at Nord, and there is a very short clip that shows the procedure. There are also stories of old keyboards that have failed by loosing their setup -- in which case the keyboard reports an error on boot, so that is not likely your issue.

But if the keyboard has been significantly changed mechanically, the original calibration may possibly be wrong and needs to be redone. I guess a "refurbished" keyboard with parts from multiple original keyboards would also have similar issues, but that is likely not your case either.

So maybe check with the piano shop what they did, and whether they are able to re-calibrate the keyboard (which is maybe not that likely, though).

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Re: Piano 3 tale of woe

Postby greg-b » 16 May 2018, 00:08

Thank you very much for the comment @baekgaard. I was aware that Nord did significant calibration work to make their version of the Fatar better than the factory edition, but I hadn't considered how the rebuild could potentially have impacted this. As things stand at the moment, I've been asked to take the piano in to a local music shop for a particular person to give a second opinion back to the repairer. Translation: they don't believe me.
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Re: Piano 3 tale of woe

Postby Alicja » 16 May 2018, 12:57

In Australia there is a two year warranty provided by law to replace or repair a faulty product. If they have tried three times and failed then just tell them to replace it. If they don’t then take them to court. Telephone and email Nord in Sweden.

People generally don’t think beyond today, and really don’t understand what building a long term friendship with their clients means. They want to be distant, alienated and independent. A customer is a thing that walks around with money that must get a product for that money within a constrained and controlled, easy for the seller system that allows no flexibility or change and which maximises profit and turns anything out of the ordinary into too difficult and shifts the burden away to the customer if that is the case. Give us your money and go away and don’t be rude to ask for service as we are the important ones here. Customers are treated like they are stupid and made to be exploited. If someone shifts that paradigm around they get upset, annoyed, don’t know how to handle it, because here nobody dares to complain. It’s the convict vs master culture propagated down in the retail environment.

I have learnt the following about buying things in Australia.

There is no free market economy. There is massive government interference and that’s after the red tape and bureaucracy.

If you are getting bad service, it’s because the supplier allows it. Try open up a business doing the same thing as someone else in the same city or town you will get told by the suppliers they won’t supply you the products for stocking your shelves as they will be looking after their existing dealer. Been there, done that multiple times, could not start several business.

Your experience of bad service is because the distributor and dealer are working together to protect themselves.

Before I pay for anything I haggle the price down or search for a better deal somewhere else.

Before I pay for anything I ask them if they accept returns and what will happen will I get a refund or credit and replacement or repair. If it’s not refund or replacement , I tell them that’s why I am not buying and leave.

Just even asking things like that in a shop places you as an enemy in these simpleton minds and they hate you forever, never seen anything like this anywhere else. Here it’s like you have to just be dumb, pull out your wallet and pay, if it breaks don’t bring it back, if you do, it’s your fault and don’t expect compensation of any kind.

So for instance, if you go to a restaurant and find a cockroach in the food, they will give you the superficial sorry or even better “sorry that you feel disappointed” which actually is disappointment at you that you should feel disappointment, offer to replace the meal and would be shocked if you suggested that you should get the meal for free or should decline and leave the restaurant without paying. If you ordered you should pay, cockroach or not. Different mentality, business owner is king, client is nothing.
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Re: Piano 3 tale of woe

Postby fieldflower » 16 May 2018, 14:24

Alicja wrote:In Australia there is a two year warranty provided by law to replace or repair a faulty product. If they have tried three times and failed then just tell them to replace it. If they don’t then take them to court. Telephone and email Nord in Sweden.


Is that also true for second user, as this one was purchased second hand?
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Re: Piano 3 tale of woe

Postby Alicja » 17 May 2018, 02:19

All consumer electronics for two years irrespective as long as you have original invoice. So shop can’t dispute where it was bought which they love to do. If they are repairing it they know their obligation or else they would have told you to get lost already, they take no responsibility on themselves here that they know they don’t have to, demand a replacement and go to court. The fact that it is second hand means nothing, you are legal owner of a piece of equipment that’s guaranteed. You just need a link to the shop with an invoice or affidavit from original owner.

I had this argument with apple over a phone that went dead after a year, I went to them in their shop with this knowledge and sat there for half an hour getting declined getting told I had to pay for the replacement (it could not be repaired anyway), going up and up until I was talking to the most senior manager genius who also held their line consistently. Then I said “ so you refuse to replace this phone which you agree has been purchased from you and has broken after 1 year and you agree has to be replaced but which you refuse to do despite my reasonable requests to you to replace it free of charge.”

She said yes and the usual smiley smart ass condescending “ I have tried to explain to you that you have read your warranty and have understood that we have a 1 year warranty on this product and there is nothing I can do as you bought the product understanding those conditions. “

Making it my fault of course.

I said ok and I pulled out my pen and Pre prepared paper which had my above statement in writing and said please sign this and place your employee number there and a stamp from the apple store or let’s get a witness to sign.
She said why before even looking at it.

I said “because you are fully aware that the Australian consumer electronics guarantee provides for replacement or full repair to new state of a faulty or broken product within two years of purchase irrespective of the manufacturers warranty and you are not complying with this law and so I will need you as a witness in my court case against apple “

She looked at me for a second, her smarty pants air of confidence melted away, but her nose went pointing up even higher, grabbed my broken phone, told me she could nothing to retrieve the data on it and went out to the back and came out with another phone. Gave it to me with printed out paperwork in a bag and said “thank you and hopefully you have no issues with this one. Have a great day, if you need anything else please ask, so and so here”

When I had the phone I said why don’t you apologise for giving me the run around and wasting my time?
She said, and I was waiting for it, as it’s the mantra here, recited as part of meditation everyday and sucked out of their mothers breast:

“ I am sorry that you feel disappointed, but we have sorted it out now and if you have anymore problems please come back and we will see what we can do”

I said

“I am sorry and sad for you that you are sorry at my disappointment, instead of experiencing authentic sorrow inside for being evil and trying to exploit your customer illegally, it’s sad you can’t even give a human apology anymore”

She came back with the standard concrete wall, robotic response that I expect as standard from these soulless beings, “ well I am sorry that you feel that way, but that is not what has occurred, I have replaced the phone and I have tried to apologise, but what more can I do? “

Again making it my fault. They can’t help themselves, it’s narcissistic and pathological already. Just notice it from now on it’s everywhere.
It’s like they have been taught not to apologise.

You should be fine just be firm with them, they are used to treating people like abused , dumb, sheep.
Last edited by Alicja on 17 May 2018, 10:58, edited 1 time in total.
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