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Number of microphones/channels on drums live

Postby Quai34 » 02 Nov 2018, 06:35

Hi Guys,
So, type of music is Funk/Dance/Pop

1) Solution I
5 Mics, 5 channels on the Mackoe Onyx 1640i, kick AKG D112, Snare AUDIX i5, Hihat Audiotechnica Atm4041, Overhead a pair of Rode NT5.
Question: what about the toms, high, medium and floor? Are they gonna be picked up by the Overhead?
With this solution, I save two channels for my two male back vocals that are singing only on few songs but I don't have to put them in the extra returns channels...

2) Solution 2:
7 Mics, 7 channels. Same as above plus SM57 or another ATM 4041 on toms high/medium, one mic for two toms
And one AKG C5600 for the Floor Tom.
Question, is the SM57 will be better or is the 4041 being a condenser will pick up better the two toms with one mic?

3) Solution 3:
Kind of a more "studio recording" set up, 7 Mics, 7 channels, more focused on Kcick and Snare than the previous one:
Kick 1, inside, on the batter skin, AKG D112, Kick 2, outside, In front of the event, AKG C5600 to get more low end (remember it's funk/dance...), top snare AUDIX i5, bottom snare SM57, Hihat Audiotechnica ATM4041, Overhead a pair of Rode NT5.

Let me know what you do with your band or which solution would you use.
Sincerely
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Number of microphones/channels on drums live


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Re: Number of microphones/channels on drums live

Postby Tracii » 02 Nov 2018, 10:19

I play in a heavy rock band, so mic model/maker is most likely going to be different. But from my experience, every sound guy I've ever met has his set of choice which includes 1 bass drum mic that ideally goes into the drum (ported reso head!), 1 SM-57 (I wonder if there's a law) snare mic (usually batter head, but there's been the occasional underfloor installation :D), 1 hi-hat mic, 2 overheads and a mic for each tom.

In a previous band we had our own set of drum mics (AKG), but it was the same setup.

I've done studio recordings with as little as 3 three mics which turned out amazing. So yes, toms can easily be picked up by the overheads, but if there's another instrument, the bleed will usually be too much.
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Re: Number of microphones/channels on drums live

Postby harmonizer » 02 Nov 2018, 15:02

The pair of overheads will pick up EVERYTHING, whether you want them to or not, even some kick. When I mix a live recording of our covers band, I reverse the phase of the kick mic compared to every other track, and I also delay the kick mic's track by 3 thousands of a second. The speed of sound is roughly 1 foot (30cm) per thousandth of a second, and your overhead mics are about 3 feet further from the impact point of the kick drum beater than the kick mic.

I record and mix our covers band live from just a kick mic and 2 condenser overheads frequently.The toms and floor drum come through just fine in the overheads, without close micing them. The hi hat is there but never as loud as I would like, but we are out of lines in our live setup. Make sure your condenser overheads are equidistant from the center of the snare drum.

If you close mic the snare from underneath, you will pick up a surprising amount of kick, but be wary of phase cancellation issues - all sounds coming out of the back of the kick drum are reversed in phase from what goes out the front to the normal placement of the kick mic.
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Re: Number of microphones/channels on drums live

Postby CountFosco » 02 Nov 2018, 17:47

Quai are you talking about getting the best setup for FOH sound, or best for recording a live gig? I think for just getting a good sound for the audience, the setup in ascending room size might be: Nothing, just kick, kick plus OHs, kick plus OHs plus snare, then for much larger rooms consider going the whole hog. The more mics, the better sound engineer you need - dialing in a fully mic'd drum kit is not trivial. If it's for recording, you can worry about all that after the fact.

I wish they'd invent a negative microphone. My son mixes my rock band, "Dad, everyone keeps asking me to turn the drums down".
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Re: Number of microphones/channels on drums live

Postby Quai34 » 03 Nov 2018, 09:34

@harmonizer
Yes for the equidistant, for me it's not only the Center of the snare but the Center of a lign that goes from the center of the Snare to the center of the Kick drum. And I have a stick with the Right measure to get the same distance....
I know about the phase with the Bottom and Top Snare, never thought about the Bottom picking up the kick Tough, thanks for that. So, if we have issues with phase cancellation, we could just decide not to use the Bottom mic or put a gate...l have a DBX 1066 that is not bad, two channels, gate/compressor/limiter that I will use on kick and snare. I' still,hesitating if I should put the Chameleon Labs stereo compressor on the whole mix or on the drums mix...Maybe main mix as Kick and Snare will already be compressed....
I know I could try but the basement is just 12.5X16.5 feet so, nothing close to a normal stage. The Stage we will be playing will be around 16X25 feet minimum, with stage riser for drums, 7X5 feet for the drums riser. But the main hall/room is way bigger, it's a big entrance of a museum...We choose the size of the stage so...
@countfosco:
Well, both at the same time, best sound for FOH and best recording through 16 tracks. And yes, I know very good sound guys, it's just that they use to do FOH more on Rock than Dance and anyway, better to know before what you want and what to ask instead of letting them decide or assume because you didn't give them enough infos ahead...Thus my questions.
Thanks to both of you.
Sincerely
Last edited by Quai34 on 03 Nov 2018, 09:43, edited 1 time in total.
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