Nord User Forum

Hi, I tried to sample one of Ample Sound Vintage Cherry's default patches, which simulates a Gibson SG. The result is a three-octaves sample (of which only the four lower-pitched notes are stretched): unfortunately, because of attack issues (I guess there's some real time processing going on when playing the VST), it's not quite apt for fast solos, but it isn't half-bad for slower parts (especially power chords). Even though it's far from perfect, I hope it will nevertheless be of use to some of you!

The first riff in the attached demo is played without any effects, the second one's coupled with the JC amp simulation whilst for the third one I used the Twin simulation with a touch of Flanger.

P.S. Concerning rule #6: there's no legal difference between a digital keyboard and a software one. Just like nobody doubts of the legality of sampling a DX7, the same applies to software instruments (regardless of what the EULA or manufacturer might say: many a EULA contain null and void clauses): a digital keyboard is a computer too, there's no difference between sampling a Rompler (of which there are many examples on this site and even Nord's) and a VST. Furthermore, playing a series of notes constitutes a performance: playing a single key's no different than playing a series of chords; a sample player, like Nord's, merely plays individual performances, therefore sampling your own performances cannot constitute copyright infringement.

On the other hand, sharing a ROM, an original samples collection (think of piano and guitar riffs) or a VST's underlying software would actually be illegal. Maintaining otherwise would lead to the conclusion that sampling is always an illegal act since any sound, except for analogue synths, was either programmed by a third party or created with a third-party software (be it a synth or a PC): in that case, the mods should not only remove my post but also any samples uploaded on this forum that was extracted from a digital keyboard. See also: A. D. Johnson, Music Copyrights: The Need for an Appropriate Fair Use Analysis in Digital Sampling Infringement Suits, 21 Fla. St. U. L., Rev. 135 (1993): "[…] By implication, one note, chord, or sound effect alone cannot be copyrighted - rather, an aggregate of sounds must exist."

• Audio 1Demo.mp3

Hi StrangeAeons,

I'm not a lawyer at all. But nevertheless, I find your legal notes quite inventive. Publishing a Demo file should not be a problem (I'm not sure, though). But as much as I don't like to pay a lot of money for a Nord to be able to play their sounds while others would be able to get them for free (through resampling), I'm quite sure there are restrictions for software samples to be copied or transformed. May it be copyright or whatever rights. You should find it in the EULA if you are allowed to resample or not.

So thanks for offering your works, but I won't download it.

FZiegler wrote:Hi StrangeAeons,

I'm not a lawyer at all. But nevertheless, I find your legal notes quite inventive. Publishing a Demo file should not be a problem (I'm not sure, though). But as much as I don't like to pay a lot of money for a Nord to be able to play their sounds while others would be able to get them for free (through resampling), I'm quite sure there are restrictions for software samples to be copied or transformed. May it be copyright or whatever rights. You should find it in the EULA if you are allowed to resample or not.

So thanks for offering your works, but I won't download it.

I understand your doubts: and even though I am a lawyer, you'll surely find both colleagues of mine agreeing with what I wrote and others that firmly believe that sampling is unlawful. I will only add that you shouldn't always trust EULAs when buying a digital good, as they can definitely contain invalid provisions: for example, Oracle's EULA forbade users from reselling their software, but the European Court of Justice ruled otherwise (UsedSoft v Oracle).

Thanks for those open words. The reselling thing is the only invalid provision in software EULAs I already heard of in the media. We'll see what the moderators will decide.

StrangeAeons wrote:Hi, I tried to sample Ample Sound Vintage Cherry's default patch, which simulates a Gibson SG. The result is a three-octaves sample (of which only the four lower-pitched notes are stretched): unfortunately, because of attack issues (I guess there's some real time processing going on when playing the VST), it's not quite apt for fast solos, but it isn't half-bad for slower parts (especially power chords). Even though it's far from perfect, I hope it will nevertheless be of use to some of you!....

Like FZiegler, I too am not sure of the legal end of things here. In my mind, whether we're talking keyboards or VSTs, if I create a sound using any platform, I can sample it and do anything I want with it. Sampling a sound bite - no problem. Sampling a complete work product, for example manufacturer samples or programs they developed, is where it gets grey quickly (for me) when it goes beyond being for personal use.

Regarding the fast passages noted above, you might want to try either adjusting the start of the note sample in the Nord Sample Editor to get to the sound quicker (less guitar pick attack) or using the "fast attack" setting in the Synth section. Take care.

I will provide a definitive legal statement. It is hereby illegal to play guitar samples on keyboards.

CountFosco wrote:I will provide a definitive legal statement. It is hereby illegal to play guitar samples on keyboards.

Haha, sounds reasonable.

WannitBBBad wrote:Regarding the fast passages noted above, you might want to try either adjusting the start of the note sample in the Nord Sample Editor to get to the sound quicker (less guitar pick attack) or using the "fast attack" setting in the Synth section. Take care.

Thanks for the tip, it's definitely an attack issue! I already sampled a few patches from my Korg but it was much easier, since they were either piano or synth sounds. I took a look at past discussions and found the following: "Yes, you have to set the fast attack point in the Nord sample editor". Where is that fast attack option located though? I can't find any attack-related settings. I also looked on the online Sample Editor guide and my Electro's manual, to no avail: there's no mention of that setting. Am I tripping over my own feet?

CountFosco wrote:I will provide a definitive legal statement. It is hereby illegal to play guitar samples on keyboards.

Isn't it amazing, though? We keyboardists are the only musicians who could play and arrange an entire song by ourselves: drums are a no-brainer with a modern virtual drummer, apps like Modo Bass provide excellent, I'd even say indistinguishable-from-the-real-thing bass guitars, and even electric guitars can be decently simulated if you give up on chords (VSTs like Shreddage are nothing short of impressive). Technology is beautiful.

StrangeAeons wrote:Isn't it amazing, though? We keyboardists are the only musicians who could play and arrange an entire song by ourselves

Sure, if you mean QWERTY (or QWERTZ here) keyboardists.

CountFosco wrote:

StrangeAeons wrote:Isn't it amazing, though? We keyboardists are the only musicians who could play and arrange an entire song by ourselves

Sure, if you mean QWERTY (or QWERTZ here) keyboardists.

Do not forget our quirky AZERTY friends.